Why on earth shouldn't you teach reading if you jolly well feel like it?

[learnandsay]

Is it really all that bad?

[Badvoc]

But to answer your question L&S yes I can walk 5 miles easily. But my 4 year old can't.

[learnandsay]

It was suggested that a library being five miles away was a good reason not to borrow books from it. I don't believe that is true. I used to borrow books from a library further way than that and walk to it. And even if a mum can't drive she's likely to know somebody who can. If the library was fifty miles away that would be different.

[seeker]

Oh, learnandsay - that really is a bit silly. You're seriously expecting a parent to take their children on a ten mile walk in the evening after school to the library- and if they don't they are in some way failing in their responsibility.

This sort of attitude really, really pisses me off. "Poor people should just get of their arses and stop being poor." Yeah, right.

[VinegarDrinker]

I love libraries, we go at least once a week, my DH reads about 4-5 books/week minimum so it's essential to avoid bankruptcy! However, we have 3 excellent libraries within a couple of miles, and bikes and excellent public transport.

If it involved walking 10 miles, then fuck that, frankly.

[VinegarDrinker]

It is a shame mobile libraries have disappeared though.

[learnandsay]

Lots of people who have perfectly adequate incomes choose not to have a car.

[seeker]

But they can therefore afford bus fares and books.

[Heifer]

Am completely lost on this thread now, but have to admit I wouldn't walk 5 miles for chocolate let alone books!

[Haberdashery]

No library= uncivilised society?

Just to clarify, Pushka, I didn't mean that not going to a library means you're uncivilised in some way! I meant that the existence of libraries seems to me a thing that is a marker for a healthy and functional society. I am also fond of Poundland.

[mintyneb]

Lands you are just taking the thread backwards as people have already said why a lot of parents can't and even won't take a child to a library.

You might really struggle to understand it, you might not agree with it but everyone has different priorities in life.

For example some parents may happily drive a 60 mile round trip 3,4 or 5 times a week before school to get their child to ice skating lessons but would never drive 1 mile to the local library. It doesn't make them heathens or lesser people. They may be perfectly happy with the books their child is bringing home from school.

You won't like this next comment but I'm going to day it. Some people like their children to be make to feed themselves

[mintyneb]

Sorry hit post by mistake. Some people like their children to be able to feed themselves but I remember you saying several times last summer that you were still spoonfeeding your 4 yo. Isn't that a bit odd too?

[poozlepants]

My mother taught P1 for 40 years and I have been discussing it with her recently as Ds is set for school in August. She always says that no child will read until they are ready be that 3 or 6. That early reading doesn't seem to be indicitive of super intelligence later on. That number intelligence often comes much later than reading but those that are very good at numbers when they arrived in P1 tended to be very good at maths later on. That often she could spend a year trying to teach a kid to read but it was pretty pointless because something had to develop in their brain and as soon as it happened they usually were flying.That you had to bear in mind that some kids are a whole year older than others and that at that age it makes a huge difference. Nearly always the boys are behind the girls to start with but they catch up and even out about P3. Hardly any child is brilliant at everything at that age- if they are good readers they may struggle more with maths or writing. She says if after a year she could get all the kids to read a bit, write a bit and sit on their bums quietly she thought she'd done well.

[seeker]

Don't understand the spoonfeeding thing- but if it's from another thread then I don't think that's on, really , is it?

[learnandsay]

Some people might not think it's very good thread-iquette, but the way I see it it doesn't matter where the knowledge comes from as long as the point is a valid one. I think the point here is that it's better to feed yourself at four than to read at four. Maybe, but most children will learn to feed themselves eventually they may never learn to read. In the case of my daughter she can feed herself incredibly quickly if she thinks that she's going to be the winner. If she's just eating supper she's still be there chatting, fiddling, singing the alphabet song long after the rest of the family is tucked up in bed.

[mintyneb]

Seeker, maybe not but I get so weary of lands with her views on education and hers is the only way and that how I or many others may be dealing with it is almost beneath contempt.

I'm just saying everyone has different 'normals' in everything they do

[seeker]

OK. I now officially have no idea what this thread's about.

All I know is that the is an unpleasant overtone of "pull yourselves together , poor people- what do you mean, the library's 5 miles away? Can't you walk? If your children don't perform well at school that's their fault for not being committed enough" and I don't like it.

[learnandsay]

There aren't any overtones in this thread, although I really liked their song, For The Longest Time.

[Badvoc]

Minty..I think you will find - as on this thread - that most people do not agree with L&S and infact are rather bemused by her posts.

[learnandsay]

badvoc, I think you'll find that many people are making up their own versions of my opinions and then disagreeing with them! We can all do that! This thread has got nothing to do with poor people (or cabbages.)

[simpson]

Or sledges

[Primafacie]

Learnandsay, I translated your opinion upthread as "parents who won't go 10 miles on foot in the snow for library books deserve to be judged as uncommitted". You then accused me of making up stuff.

You later restated your opinion as: "It was suggested that a library being five miles away was a good reason not to borrow books from it. I don't believe that is true. I used to borrow books from a library further way than that and walk to it. And even if a mum can't drive she's likely to know somebody who can. If the library was fifty miles away that would be different."

Can I therefore reiterate that (a) I wasn't making stuff up and (b) I don't agree with your opinion, as expressed by yourself here.

I think if you judge people for not walking 5 miles to a library, just so their young children improve their reading, then you are being incredibly narrow minded, naive and intolerant. I am, quite simply, amazed at the suggestion that anyone would actually do that.

You may be the best parent in the world, but you are coming across as very difficult to deal with on this thread. You seem to be more interested in baiting people than actually having a debate, and incapable of seeing the view point of others. If your children pick this trait off from you, then no matter how gifted they are, they are likely to have a lifetime of difficulty in handling social interaction.

[wordfactory]

Well all I can say OP, is that I didn't teach my DC to read early.
They went to school unable to read or write a word.

However, I ensured that they were fully subnerged in the world of words and story. I actually felt that early teaching of the mechanics might spoil that, and I wasn't prepared to risk it...too important.

In hindsight it seems to have been the right thing to do.

[Badvoc]

Yep.
What prima said!

[learnandsay]

The point is that there are a number of ways of covering those five miles which don't require the library user to spend more money such as using a bicycle, walking, getting a lift, getting somebody else to pick the books up and using a mobile library service if one is available. I hadn't actually spoken about commitment and the lack of it. But I will now if you like. I wouldn't regard a parent who didn't use any particular one of these methods (or perhaps others, like borrowing books/or library books from friends) to cover those five miles. There may be a good reason. But if a parent used no method, and didn't explore the possibility of using the library service at all, but would rather their child wanted for books then yes. I would consider that neglectful.

[sittinginthesun]

Oh, Lands, I don't know whether to laugh, cry, or snort when I read some of your posts.

I think that teaching your daughter to read has become so important to you, that you are missing the point. Do you worry about it this much in RL?