School telling mom off for smacking her kid

[squareheadcut]

A parent I know has 3 kids under 5 and lives in a two bedroom small flat, she's a single mum and is going back to work from maternity leave in a few weeks - basically she's got a lot on her plate but does an amazing job under these circumstances.

To discipline the eldest (age 6) she occasionally smacks with her hand and always explains what she's done it for and hugs him after. Now I don't agree with this discipline method but that's how she was brought up.

The teachers are on her back at the school telling her that this smacking is "on her child's record" and she has been brought in for a 'meeting' with the welfare teacher about it and had 'child protection' and 'social services' words said to her in what sounds like thinly veiled blackmail.

It has made her angry and will lead to another smack for the kid when he gets home tonight for saying stuff about her at school - basically leading to a worsening of their relationship.

I just think the school are handling it wrongly, rather than supporting her and trying to change her behaviour they seem to make matters worse.

What do you guys think? How should schools handle this sort of thing? Should they be threatening with child protection or ignoring it or what? I know they're in a difficult position but surely they can do better than this? It's not against the law for smacking your child after all whether you agree with it or not....

[AbigailAdams]

Squareheadcut do you think it is OK that this mother will hit her child because he asked for help?

[ZZZenAgain]

shame you couldn't be bothered to read Carla's thoughtful post. It was spot on.

[seeker]

So. Child tells teacher that he is being hit by his mother.


What should the school do?

[squareheadcut]

sirzy the 'thought police' - it's a term used in reference to when you want to arrest someone for what they're thinking. that's what i meant.

[ZZZenAgain]

presumably the school needs to learn more about other cultures where smacking is the usual thing to do so they know to shrug it off when a dc from that background mentions he gets hit at home and not annoy the mother and her friends by inviting her in to discuss it. The school should also learn not to make "thinly veiled threats" involving the words SS and Child Protection because this will "alienate" the mother.

THankfully this is not going to happen.

[HecatePropylaea]

I do not believe that the school are taking this action because she taps him on the hand and then explains why and gives him a cuddle. I just don't. That does not ring true. Either she is doing far more than that to him, or he is telling the school that she is.

I did X and mum smacked my hand and then gave me a cuddle.
Let's phone social services. This is a child protection issue.

Really?

If she actually did hit him for telling school what she does to him then she needs intervention.

If there's the slightest chance that that child is trying to find a way to reach out for help, then he should be listened to and action taken.

[Sirzy]

Sorry missed the word thought.

She didn't just think it though did she, she told you that she was going to hit her child when she got home. Did that not raise alarm bells with you coz it sure as hell would have with me.

You are very quick to try to defend her right to hit her child for speaking up about concerns though. The poor child

[RooneyMara]

Right, so your son's teacher hauled you in to speak to the welfare person because your son said something during play that was misconstrued as meaning you were hitting him.
And that was all sorted out but you started a thread on it afterwards.

And another parent in a different class has also been hauled in for a meeting with the welfare person, and 'threatened' with social services involvement.

All this in the last week or so?

It sounds like the school is obsessed with accusing parents of unjustified punishment.

Are you the only two parents being accused of this recently? Or do you think there is someone at the school who is creating unnecessary drama out of nothing?

[ZZZenAgain]

maybe the school is having a crack-down.

[chloe74]

hitting or threatening to hit a child is wrong, it is abusive and has to be reported and stopped immediately. There is no cultural issue, its just plain wrong. Smacking is not a time out measure, 'time out is time out', smacking is abuse. You do not accept smacking because it might alienate the parent, its abuse, an anonymous call to report it should be made if you are afraid to give your name. It rightly should be on the parents record for life.

[tethersend]

"the problem is the school should be supporting parents"

Erm, no. The school's job is to support the child. I would have thought that was obvious.

[RaisinBoys]

Why bother inviting comment if you are going to ignore, belittle and disregard all the bits that you don't like?

"Cultural issue"! Bollocks! What culture thinks it is acceptable to hit a small child several hours after some perceived wrong doing? And I come from a background where my siblings and I were hit a lot - incidentally it doesn't work or you would only have to do it once!

All it does is make a child lose trust in the very people they should trust the most.

Your "friend" has a bad temper. Your "friend" takes that out on her child.

It's not right. It's never going to be acceptable.

If she loves her child she should seek some help before she ruins any sort of relationship she has with her child.

[clabsyqueen]

Compelled to add my bit: This mum sounds like a bully taking out her stresses on her kids. You say she's likely to hit him for telling - poor poor kid. Totally unacceptable. Even a light tap on the hand is a ridiculous way to get a kid to think how to do the right thing. She's tired stressed and busy. Not an excuse. Ever.

[Carla123]

Ok Squareheadcut Lets assume that the two threads you started, within an hour of each other, about school welfare officers and smacking are unrelated. It seems as though you are still hoping we will all rush to the condemn the school for following procedures which would rightly be applied to all pupils within their care, if suspicions were raised. Are you seriously only interested in reading replies which agree with you? Thats not quite how these forums work.

You said "We all want the same thing - to get the mother to stop smacking". If that is the case why not stop justifying your friends behaviour and actually try and think of ways you could support your friend and more importantly her son. You said "they should be sitting down with this mother and having sensible, supportive and FRIENDLY informal conversations WITHOUT threat". Actually, you are her friend, so why cant you do this yourself, if you genuinely want her to stop smacking her son. My long post that you couldn't be bothered to read might even give you some pointers. Perhaps you and your friend need to reflect a bit on why the school have singled the two of you out, as a focus for their concern in two completely unrelated incidents . What could you be doing or saying that is causing your children to say things in the playground or elsewhere, that give teachers the wrong impression of you?

"it wasn't that long ago that schools were smacking and using corporal punishment, i think they should remember this before they run over to the 'safeguarding policies' which really probably aren';t worth the paper they're written on' Thankfully, things have moved on and schools have improved upon their past mistakes. History is riddled with things that would be unacceptable today.

[garlicbaubles]

What culture thinks it is acceptable to hit a small child several hours after some perceived wrong doing?

The USA - vast swathes of it, anyway, supported by their churches. I thought OP might be American as she says "mom". Not that either child-beating or 'mom' are exclusive to the US!

[insancerre]

Why is violence against children ok?
This woman is not doing a "fantastic job". She is abusing her child/ren.
The school have to act- they have a legal duty to under safeguarding laws.

[Xenia]

No one should smack a child ever. The children should put film of it up on youtube to shame the parents.

[TeddyBare]

The school should have gone directly to social services and the friend should stop hitting her dc. Have you tried helping her and suggesting parenting methods which do not involve taking your anger / embarrassment out on a 6 year old? That might be a friendly thing to do.

[TheNebulousBoojum]

I am really pissed off that the OP is using my comment about corporal punishment in schools as validation for her attitude that we are all procedure-crazed jobsworths.

This is what I said, in context :

'Exactly Gobblers. hitting your partner didn't used to be illegal either, but women started to object and the law slowly changed. Sadly, in almost every situation, a child is completely powerless and virtually voiceless as well.
It is taking longer to make hitting your children illegal, but it was banned in schools two years after I started teaching.
So I could hit your children when they were rude or misbehaved, and the law would have allowed it.'

[Carla123]

Squareheadcut I hope you read this, as the whole thing has really made me worried about this little boy. I followed my instincts and did a search on here and found a very old thread you started, which I think may be about the same friend and her son. You can correct me if I am wrong.

Firstly, I would like to to apologise to you, as I can see that part of my last post "Perhaps you and your friend need to reflect a bit on why the school have singled the two of you out, as a focus for their concern in two completely unrelated incidents . What could you be doing or saying that is causing your children to say things in the playground or elsewhere, that give teachers the wrong impression of you?" implies that the school should view you in the same light as your friend which is unfair to you. I think that I was just alarmed by some of the comments you have made to justify your friends behaviour. However, you have clearly stated that you don't agree with this discipline method and don't smack your own child.

Is the friend you mention in this current thread the same fiend you refer to here?. If so, then I think deep down you must know that your friends behaviour towards her son is abusive and you really should be more concerned for his well-being. It seems from some of the comments you make below, that although you are a helpful and caring friend to her, you may not be following through on things that bother you.

squareheadcut Thu 02-Feb-12 17:39:28
"The upstairs woman has 3 kids under 5 - oldest child is five years old, the younger boy is 2 and she's just had a newborn girl. Her five year old goes to the same school as my boy so now she's had the new girl, I've been abit lumbered and take her boy to school in the mornings..............he can hardly explain himself at all which makes me think he doesn't get talked to much and he never has breakfast in the morning."

squareheadcut Tue 20-Mar-12 21:37:30
"there are issues with her son though - he is not used to being listened to and talked to but i try and chat with him as much as poss on the walk to school, also he told me his mom thinks the devil's in him which was abit disturbing, he has trouble telling the truth but i think it's because he's so nervous about talking and he covers up for it by making stuff up".

Like I said, correct me if I am wrong and these are two different friends. However, even if that is the case, I think you need to recognise signs of child abuse and take action, when a child asks for help. Your threads make me sooooo grateful that all schools provide their staff with Safeguarding Children procedures and training. I really hope that the steps the school have already taken will help this little boy. Please report any concerns you have to Social Services.

[RooneyMara]

Oh Jesus that is about the saddest thing I have ever read

Thank GOD the school is onto it in some way

[learnandsay]

Sounds to me like it's only a matter of time until SS step in and sort this one out.

[learnandsay]

I'm guessing the OP's friend knows that too, and that's why the boy is going to get another whack for bringing it up at school.