School telling mom off for smacking her kid

[squareheadcut]

A parent I know has 3 kids under 5 and lives in a two bedroom small flat, she's a single mum and is going back to work from maternity leave in a few weeks - basically she's got a lot on her plate but does an amazing job under these circumstances.

To discipline the eldest (age 6) she occasionally smacks with her hand and always explains what she's done it for and hugs him after. Now I don't agree with this discipline method but that's how she was brought up.

The teachers are on her back at the school telling her that this smacking is "on her child's record" and she has been brought in for a 'meeting' with the welfare teacher about it and had 'child protection' and 'social services' words said to her in what sounds like thinly veiled blackmail.

It has made her angry and will lead to another smack for the kid when he gets home tonight for saying stuff about her at school - basically leading to a worsening of their relationship.

I just think the school are handling it wrongly, rather than supporting her and trying to change her behaviour they seem to make matters worse.

What do you guys think? How should schools handle this sort of thing? Should they be threatening with child protection or ignoring it or what? I know they're in a difficult position but surely they can do better than this? It's not against the law for smacking your child after all whether you agree with it or not....

[Kendodd]

"i'm afraid i feel the school is more responsible for the child getting hit tonight than the mom "



If the school is responsible why doesn't she go down there and slap the headteacher then?

[Carla123]

Squareheadcut I have just read the other thread you started this morning Teacher - Parent Breakdown. It seems to me as though the facts from the two threads are blurred. Assuming your "friend" will read through these threads I would like to say the following to her:

Please do not be angry at your son for the situation that has developed at school. He is only six and in no way responsible for the behaviour of any adults in his life (including his mother, welfare officers or new teachers). I am sure as his mother your son loves you more than anyone and would not deliberately seek to cause you any extra pressure or make you feel uncomfortable at school. He was just telling someone he trusted about something that has been upsetting him. Being on the receiving end of smacking can be very confusing for children and can make them feel scared of the very people who are meant to protect them. The fact that you need to try and explain the smacking to your son and hug him after shows that you are aware he might feel unloved because of it. What if in-spite of your explanations and hugs your son thinks you don't like him? He will only have one childhood, so do you really want him to remember you as someone who hurt him when he was little? He needs to know that even if he is naughty your love is unconditional.

How would you feel if you found out that someone else was hitting your son and then forcing him to keep it a secret, even if he was really upset? Why do you think it is different because it is you doing the hitting? Surely you would want to protect him and reassure him that nobody is allowed to hurt him. There is always an alternative to smacking, which is a life skill that you need to teach your son, so that he can articulately handle himself in tricky situations without getting excluded from school, arrested for assault, or developing a habit of laying into his own kids/wife.

If you do have a lot on your plate and this is having an impact on your relationship with your son, perhaps you could ask for help from someone you trust. What kind of support do you feel would improve the relationship with your son? In what way if any do you think the school could support you? As they have already mentioned SS perhaps this would be an opportunity to ask for their help. Have you tried talking anonymously to an agency such as childline or gingerbread?

If your son is naughty perhaps you could come on here and ask MNers for tips on how to discipline him without smacking, for specific things he is doing.

[chloe74]

The school have done exactly the right thing, its abuse to assault, I would have rung the police. There is no excuse for hitting children.

[garlicbaubles]

That's a good post, Carla. I hope she finds it helpful.

[RaisinBoys]

Fantastic post Gobblers!

"It has made her angry and will lead to another smack for the kid when he gets home tonight for saying stuff about her at school - basically leading to a worsening of their relationship."

School are right to be concerned.

She has a lot on her plate? So do many. It's not her son's job or responsibilty to manage his mother's temper.

If you are truly her "friend" urge her to get some help before she ruins her relationship with her son.

[AlienRefluxLooksLikeSnow]

School don't involve protection services unless they are sure this is more than a tap on the backside. The child may have had marks, are you sure this isn't worse than she's telling you? I think the school are dead right to take this to another level with a Mother that thinks it's OK to hit a child for telling the truth.

[cory]

Just to sum up the relevant points which have already been made by other posters:

1. The son will not have said "my mother smacks me in a controlled manner within the bounds of reasonable chastisement". He will have said "my mum hits me".
   

The school, at this point, has no means of telling the difference between a parent who uses smacking as part of a controlled discipline or an abusive parent. So they have a choice between investigating all these cases and investigating none. If they investigate none, then chances are sooner or later they will find that a pupil of theirs was desperately trying to tell the teacher about abuse and getting no help.

1. Smacking a child BECAUSE HE HAS TOLD is not reasonable chastisement; it is a very worrying sign.
   

1. The child is not responsible for his mother's temper: she is responsible for how she parents him.
   

fwiw I speak as someone who has been called in to the school more than once for meetings with welfare officers and SS. And yes, I was quite innocent. And no, I did not go home and take it out on my dc. And if I had, it would not have been the headteacher's fault. (It wasn't about smacking btw)

[sashh]

It has made her angry and will lead to another smack for the kid when he gets home tonight for saying stuff about her at school - basically leading to a worsening of their relationship

So mum is hitting the child because she is angry, not because he has done anything wrong.

That's an abusive relationship. Either she needs help PDQ or those children need to be away from her.

[squareheadcut]

whoah! i just came back to this and you guys have gone CRAZY! This is smacking as a time out measure and not some huge abuse scandal, there certainly have NEVER been any marks on the boy. It seems to me that in your rush to condemn the mother you have lost all sense of understanding (there is also a cultural issue here). We all want the same thing - to get the mother to stop smacking, but there are ways of going about it and I am suggesting the school have not done this correctly. Yes, they have followed procedure (teachers love procedure) but is this the best way? it certainly hasn't worked in this case.

[Sirzy]

So what do you think they should have done?

How is smacking a "time out measure"? How is smacking a child for telling someone about a problem a good thing?

[Sirzy]

It's also worth remembering abuse doesn't always leave visible marks. Doesn't mean it's not abuse.

[squareheadcut]

carla 123 - you have got it all wrong, i'm afraid i am just being plain old honest and these two things have happened separately, so i didn't bother reading your long post - this happened to a friend and i am have had a few separate problems with my ds's teacher who is in a different year. so nothing to read into there i'm afraid.

[squareheadcut]

Also - I would like to say I do not know if she actually DID hit her son last night - she could have just said that in the heat of the moment and after she said it calmed down.

In your rush to condemn smacking, i think someone rightly put this ito historical context, it wasn't that long ago that schools were smacking and using corporal punishment, i think they should remember this before they run over to the 'safeguarding policies' which really probably aren';t worth the paper they're written on.

[butisthismyname]

'cultural issue'??

[Sirzy]

she could have just said that in the heat of the moment and after she said it calmed down.

Oh well just threatening her child is fine then isn't it. Nothing to worry about at all!

[squareheadcut]

sirzy - they should not be using thinly veiled threats of 'this will be on his record' which only serves to alienate. they should be sitting down with this mother and having sensible, supportive and FRIENDLY informal conversations WITHOUT threat.

[squareheadcut]

sirzy - she said that to me not her child.

[Sirzy]

I don't care who she said it to its still wrong that the thought even came into her head.

of course it will go on his record, the school need to report the fact that a child has told them he is being hit at home.

[squareheadcut]

mrsdevere - well it seems i know more about what's going on in this home than most, i am just an ordinary mother - i don't work in schools or know anything about child protection it's true but i seem to know more about what's going on in this household than anyone else.

[LtEveDallas]

Carla123's post is excellent, you would do well to read it OP.

I am not an absolute 'Smacking is wrong' parent, but have not needed to smack my child. If your friend needs help to discipline her child the. She should ask for it. She does NOT need to smack as a time out measure - time out is actually a good disciplinary tool on its own - with my DD being sent to her bedroom whilst we both calm down has helped immeasurably.

And to answer your question, no, I don't think the school is in the wrong. Your friend is responsible for her own actions, and as we all know, actions have consequences.

[squareheadcut]

sirzy - you want to report her to the thought police now? come on

[Sirzy]

What who has mentioned police?

It will go on the childs records in the school, schools are obliged to record any incidents which occur in school or which are reported by pupils of things which happen outside school.

This is to allow to to keep track of what is happening. If a pupil reports being smacked, or is showing signs of unusual injuries the school will record this. If a pupil then goes on to show other signs which raise alarm bells it means the school have an accurate picture of things from the schools POV.

[titchy]

But teachers are not qualified as family therapists - they are teachers. Becasue they teach children they have a duty to report potential abuse to the appropriate authorities. What's so confusing?

Do you really think it's the teacher's role to offer paretning skills to your friend? SS ARE able to offer this sort of support, but of course it measn the family will then be known to SS. Whcih is what the school has told her.

Personally I think it's a good thing that the school is aware of this situation. Or woudl you prefer teachers to keep their sticky beaks out and ignore any warning signs? Cos teachers love procedures you know. Nothing they like better than reporting families to SS.....

Up to your friend now.