the boy in the striped pyjamas

[workshy]

my yr5 DD watched this in school the other day

school sent home a permission slip explaining that it was a 12 but was related to a topic they had been covering in school

I know about the film and chatted to DD about it and was confident she would be ok so I gave my permission -obviously lots of parents had absolutely no idea what the film was like and many DCs were upset by it

is it really a film they should be showing to 9&10 year olds?

well you didn't like me missing out part of that same post

which is your right but as you say someone else may want their child taught about it at a very young age and therefore the teacher has to decide when is the best time for a particular group.

mrz I simply failed to see the point you were trying to make, or how it flowed from my post. I see now that only the last sentence was relevant.

I can't imagine that any parents actively want their primary aged kids taught about the Holocaust in a formal setting. If they do have those views then they're likely to have a family background that prompts it and are likely to take the teaching into their own hands.

Those who are reasonably educucated about the Holocaust would be very unlikely indeed to want it taught at primary level in school; those who know little about it bar the headlines probably have no standing to request it be taught.

Anyhow, here at least the noes seem to have it.

because it is so emotive a subject for you Yellowtip it perhaps colours your view of what others might think. Many parents apparently have no problem with it being taught.

MrsMicawber that was a really thought-provoking and moving post.

You're wrong mrz, the subject is no more emotive for me than it is for anyone else. If anything I feel a duty not to cheapen the experiences of those directly involved by allowing that sort of emotion and I truly don't feel it. As I've said, I'm not Jewish. I can understand that the Jewish second generation may feel differently; the whole Jewish experience has historically been different. I wouldn't presume to relate to it.

I think what informs my views ('colours' is presumably intended to imply my views are unneccessarily subjective) is that I know something about it. Knowledge tends to lead to better judgements on the whole, not worse.

no I wasn't suggestion your view were unnecessarily subjective.

I also happen to know something about it and I also know something about literacy to primary children and would suggest that shared knowledge doesn't always reach the same judgement better or worse.

Those in possession of the same knowledge obviously don't always share the same views but I'd like to think that anyone who knows even a moderate amount about the details of the Holocaust would judge it to be a wholly unsuitable topic to explore at primary school level, in school.

If they don't think it unsuitable, I'm interested to hear their reasons. Surely the reasons for not exposing young children to the details are far stronger than the reasons for doing so. And surely the need for historical truth (so a need not to gloss details) on this particular subject has a primacy over everything else.

'Literacy' is fairly irrelevant here, in the grand scheme of things.

So anyone who doesn't share your opinion must be wrong

There are plenty of other books they could be reading in their literacy lessons which were actually written for their age group.
I remember being quite distressed learning about the Holocaust in full details and I was a teenager at the time. I don't see how it would be ok for a 9 year old.
As a teacher, I had to teach the poetry of ww1 to a yr 7 class (11-12 years old) and actually I felt that they were too young to really understand and it would have been better suited to 13 year olds.

Yellowtip didn't like me suggesting other books as they weren't about the holocaust (which was the reason I suggested them) and I'm suitably chastised and literacy is irrelevant apparently

Studying the Holocaust is not necessary though. There is no rule that says primary schools have to teach it. It is not expected that children will leave primary school with this knowledge.

What has happened here is that some schools/teachers/producers of educational materials have all latched on to this book, partly because it is "easy" to read because it is written from a child's point of view and decided it would be good to use in literacy lessons. without stopping to think if the children would be able to cope with the content of the book. You can't study it as a work of fiction without teaching them something of the history behind it. The whole book "works" because the reader knows what Bruno doesn't.

is there a rule that says any schools have to teach it?

Nope, and most primary schools don't as far as I am aware.
They have a choice between Victorian Britain or Britain since the 1930s. Nazi Germany is not included on the suggestions for World history study.

especially not in a literacy lesson

I agonised over my dd watching it in yr 5, really agonised. Finally gave my consent as I thought it would make more of it by me staying no and the other kids would just tell her anyway.

They ran out of time and she still hasn't seen it at 13

That is in the NC for History though. Not literacy. There is nothing in the English curriculum that makes the Holocaust a compulsory topic at any age.

It is included in the Programme of Study for History at KS3 as part of what pupils are expected to learn about European History.

Not many novels in the history curriculum either

mrz the only thing I said about your reference to Mr. Tom and The Silver Sword and Anne Frank was that they didn't deal with the camps. I've no idea what you mean: 'Yellowtip didn't like me suggesting other books'. It's simply that they don't open up the subject of the Holocaust in the same way and so one doesn't get into the question of whether they're suitable for the age group in question. They're all very fine books.

There's masses of stuff teachers can explore truthfully about WW2 which will engage primary school kids, particularly if it sticks to the ultra safe subject of the Home Front, ersatz banana etc. I imagine primary school teachers in mainland Europe wanting to discuss WW2 have a far tougher job.

What is your experience of the subject though mrz? Is your background Jewish or continental? And have you visited camps, studied the subject as part of your degree or just read a good deal about it? I'm really surprised that you think it is an ok subject for the under 11's when Auschwitz doesn't, so I'm trying to work out how you reach that conclusion.

Historians frequently read contemporary literature mrz. DD2 is currently doing a module for her History degree at Oxford which is almost nothing but novels and films. She thinks it's great .

This novel isn't suitable for 9 year olds regardless of what is in the history curriculum. And anyway, primary schools tend to take a cross-curricular approach to their teaching.
How would you suggest a teacher of 9 year olds just teach this book as a novel to a class who have no prior understanding of the setting of the novel or the themes it covers? What would the children get out of studying this book in their literacy lessons if they don't understand what it is about?

Yellowtip I made a suggestion of other books that could be used for a literacy unit which didn't meet your approval as you seem determined that this is a history lesson.