the boy in the striped pyjamas

[workshy]

my yr5 DD watched this in school the other day

school sent home a permission slip explaining that it was a 12 but was related to a topic they had been covering in school

I know about the film and chatted to DD about it and was confident she would be ok so I gave my permission -obviously lots of parents had absolutely no idea what the film was like and many DCs were upset by it

is it really a film they should be showing to 9&10 year olds?

Kat says she expect some teachers didn't bother to think the content through properly but just latched on to the fact that the central character was a nine year old boy. I agree that that's more likely - though very shallow - than the fact that they believe that Y5 is the appropriate time to trigger a discussion of extermination camps in the classroom. But you believe the reverse?

I just simply can't believe you know very much about the subject at all.

There certainly are teachers who find ready made planning and resources and use them indiscriminately, however, there are others who have enough knowledge and experience to approach the most sensitive subjects sympathetically and appropriately for the children they teach hopefully the OPs child has the later type.

As neither of us knows what has been taught, other than the class have watched a film (which as I have said numerous times I wouldn't do ... personally I think it's lazy teaching to put on a whole DVD regardless of content) I prefer not to make judgements. You on the other hand seem to have no problem jumping to assumptions so please don't let the fact that you know nothing about me or the other teacher stop you from your aspersions

There isn't a single assumption which I've 'jumped to' mrz. I've made assumptions based on a few things you've said or omitted to say, but not all these have been expressed. No individual teacher has been accused of anything on this thread; the comments are general. And I'm sure you wouldn't deny that there are poor quality teachers out there alongside the good and the excellent ones. It may well be the case that many primary school teachers in particular lack the subject knowledge to approach this subject sensitively, or to be in a proper position to make a 'professional judgement ' as to whether the subject should be taught. Not all judgements made by professionals are good, simply because the decision maker has that status.

All I know of you is that you are a primary school teacher who believes the Holocaust is an appropriate subject to introduce at schhol at KS2/ in Y5 and that the fact that it's introduced obliquely in literacy makes it ok.

I don't believe it is or it does and I'm reassured that the main body of opinion on this thread seems to share that view.

Then your knowledge of me is flawed Yellowtip

[bugrin]

When I complained about the book being read to my daughter's year 5 class, the teacher was an experienced one who I have a great deal of respect for. Several children in the class had read the book, and it had been recommended to her, BUT she hadn't read to the end ( she may have seen the film, but I believe it is less harrowing possibly).
We discussed the use of the book, and it was made clear and easy for children to opt out. However when the teacher read to the end (something she should have done first, but as abuse teacher......), she abandoned the book and choose another one. I think she saw why I was concerned about the reaction of a sensitive and imaginative child.

mrz you clearly aren't persuaded, at least the bugrin would suggest so, so let me suggest an alternative for your better Y5 and 6 readers.

How about Lolita? The heroine of that is only 12 so it must be fine. The novel has stood the test of time and, with sensitivity, you could broach the subject of paedophilia to your top table. No point shielding them from what real life throws.

mummytime that was a colossal omission on the part of the teacher and as someone earlier said, the option of opting out misses the point.

[bugrin] you are so funny Yellowtip

I found the book upsetting myself (though very well written), and complained (politely) to the bookshop when I saw it there in the children's section - just saying I'd see it more as a book for adults or at least older teens.

I think primary is too early to show the whole film to the whole class, especially when it is classified 12.

If parents and children choose to watch it together at home then that's different as parents know their children well and can stop watching more easily if anyone finds something distressing.

How did abuse get on there?

Actually the most amusing /weird thing is one of the kids who had read it wasn't allowed to watch Dr Who as too frightening.

Same logic as yours mrz.

would you like some ?

for someone who doesn't make assumptions there goes another

I was in tears when I watched it.The school should not have let them watch it.

I have just studied this novel with my Year 8 class many of whom found it very upsetting. I am quite shocked that it is being studied in KS2 as I actually had pangs of guilt about introducing my students to the horrors committed in Auschwitz. However, I don't regret reading it with them, they have the emotional maturity to cope with it.

Because it is written with such beautiful simplicity, it is easy to read and a good Year 5 could easily cope with the text. (We looked in particular at how the reader infers meanings and considered what is left unsaid.) In my opinion though, the majority of 9-10 year olds would not be emotionally equipped to deal the cruelty of the Holocaust and it feels like a loss of their innocence to explain it to them.

Year 8 seems a much better judgement.

You say the text is quite simple FB but as you rightly add that doesn't mean the content is suitable for the age group from an emotional point of view.

I wonder as well if it's possible people make some wrong assumptions from a slightly cute title about "The boy in striped pyjama's" - but surely everyone knows the shocking events the book chronicles ? Just because it's about two young boys doesn't mean it's suitable for that age group to read, or aimed at them.

mrz you honestly now seem to be doing yourself a disservice with each and every post.

I don't even understand your penultimate one or your last one, sorry.

Can't believe I'm posting on this again but can't help myself...aside from the (hugely important) content/historical issues there are actually other reasons why the book is really not suitable for 9 year olds which are, as recent posters have touched on, to do with the actual techniques used by the author. I can't imagine any child that young gifted enough to understand the literary device of an unreliable narrator or appreciate the spareness of the language and the author's decision for using these, amongst other, techniques. For these additional reasons, the book truly should be considered an adult/teen novel.

don't worry Yellowtip I don't think you have understood anything I've posted but ithasnt stopped you makinhg assumptions so please just carry on I watch with interest for you to tell me what I think and know..

mrz could you please explain to us why you are so intent on having an argument with yellowtip?
I have no idea what your point of view on the OP actually is, you are not actually discussing the issue any more, you are just being unpleasant.

If you want to discuss when you think the appropriate age for children to learn about the Holocaust is, fine. If you are just interested in having some silly argument then why not piss off and find some pointless AIBU thread to do it on?

Perhaps you should report me to MN for my unpleasantness?

I will leave AIBU forum to you as you seem more familiar and obviously have the vocabulary.

I have been thinking about this and I suppose what any teacher should be thinking is "What is the main focus of the learning supposed to be".

Is it that a lot of people died in a horrible way just because of the place and race they were born to - very simple and good for teaching about bullying and being different.

Or is it the deeper learning, that the people who were doing these terrible things were not 'other'. They were just ordinary people like you and me, who were manipulated by their Government and their Media and the situation they were in, into becoming these monsters. For me that is the true horror of the holocaust, that ordinary people became monsters, filled with hate, and put their fellow human beings through unimaginable suffering. That is a learning that is definitely something I think can only be comprehended by mid to late teens.

Thanks Kat. Because of all the internal evidence she has provided in this thread I assume that mrz wants merely to argue with me in an insubstantial and puerile way about a serious subject because:

a) she's one of those teachers who can't tolerate being told they might have it wrong and

b) she lacks the subject knowledge to judge appropriately but if she possesses that knowledge then

c) she lacks the emotional intelligence to judge appropriately.

These factors are weighted, with a) likely to be of significantly more consequence than the rest.

What I can say with certainty is that I'd be a seriously pissy pupil if I happened to be a pupil in her class.