Q and A about the use of Nintendo Games in School

[RachelMumsnet]

Primary school teacher Dawn Hallybone recently appeared as herself in one of Nintendo's Real People TV adverts, where she was filmed using the handheld DS console in her job. The adverts sparked some debate in the media and online (including mumsnet) about the authenticity of her story.

Dawn has been using DS consoles in her classroom for over three years. She is a firm believer that games consoles can be powerful tools for learning in classrooms and is a big fan of the maths-based games like Brain Training. Dawn is also part of her school borough's games network and has access to a selection of Wii games as well, which are also used in her school.

Following a number of posts on this thread on Mumsnet before Christmas, we've been asked by Nintendo if you'd like to ask Dawn questions about their games-based learning approach directly. Please send in your questions by end of day on Monday 24th January and we'll link to the answers from this thread by the end of the week.

madwomanintheattic - what you describe sounds like the Senseo system they use in D's school. It works really very well. They use it for maths weekly tests, plus other activities. You can map out reslts and get trends, etc. And the children love it - and for them to love a maths test has to be a good thing surely!

Most research into games consoles looks at the playing of violent and age inappropriate games on behaviour, not on the use of an interactive class session of using education packages (and I don't mean brain training) and activities. Yes, the use of age inappropriate video games can have a detrimental effect on somechildren. However, I have yet to see research that sas that using an educational game or piece of software as a negative affect on a child's learning or behaviour, especially when used for shrt periods of time eery so often.

Most children, without SN, are able to understand that there are different rules at school to home, so they can understand that whilst they may be allowed to use a DS at school, they can't at home. Same goes for computers, DVDs, or whatever.

Should TV, DVDs and computers all be barred too? Will you pull your child out of sessions for these activities? It is no different.

Give teachers - trained education-based professionals - the credit to be able to develop their curriculum and use a range of resources as they feel best benefits their classes.

Or maybe we should go back to rote learning and dictated notes into books.

hula - yes, you're right, i couldn't remember the name. [might need brain training emoticon] it is senseo. hula, for 'tests' then, are they still given multiple choice answers? i'm slightly unsure how that would work in maths tests, when traditionally these have been marked for 'working out' steps as well as the actual right answer, so a teacher is able to chack a child's understanding of the 'working out' process. so you could get a point for your 'working out' because you understood the steps to get the answer, even if you don't get the actual answer right?

(quite interested in this - ds1 is a very capable mathematician, but does it all in his head - this has led to various difficulties over the years where he has been unable to explain how he 'got' an answer - he just knows that's what it is. )

if it's still multiple guess choice, how do you know the results are based on 'working out' and not a lucky guess? (genuinely interested - i suspect the senseo system will be introduced here fairly soon...)

apols, i know the thread is about ds, but it's a similar ethos - designed to promote participation in children who are not stimulated unless they are plugged in to something lol.

It can be used in different ways - either multiple choice or to simply enter in the answer using the keypad. During a parent's night at the beginning of the year the parents got to have a go. The teacher was less nice to us and had our results come up on screen! The teacher can control how long they have for each answer to enter, and what results are shown or now on screen.

The maths tests are for the quick fire mental arithmetic type tests, not for longer working out maths - that is done in other ways, written down to show working, etc.

Again, it is just another tool for the teacher to use.

thanks - i haven't seen the system - it was just described at a funding meeting. i can see that sort of thing as a time saver actually - if it's just used in that context then it saves peer marking time etc etc.
how are the nintendo results monitored and tracked?

I assume the Ninetendo wouldn't have tracking and assessment, more used as an interactive activity than for assessment. Depends how they use it but I wwould imagine it used for a 5-10 minute starter or plenary type activity, or perhaps one group in the class using them for a specific activity. It would very much depend onwhat they did on them. have never used a Nintendo at work.

madwoman - are you asking about tracking/monitoring on the ds in general, or because that owuld be useful to you?

only (I know, a different system, more expense, etc) a lot of the apps (especially the educational-based ones) on the ipad/itouch are trackable. it can be quite useful.

My Word Coach saves the scores of two (or three?) players. I am a psychologist by the way. According to My Word Coach that is

I imagine it would be similar with other DS games - although if each can only save two or three players' scores and you need a cartridge for each, you'd need maybe 15 copies if the whole class was going to take part at the same time. Having said that, they can be picked up cheaply enough (mine was £5 in Toys R Us) and if all 30 were playing you'd need a cart each anyway I think.

I have used the DS to get boys in particular to engage in reading as part of my volunteer reading duties. I have ghoul school stories and they have comprehension questions at the end. They're great!

I also play word jong with a couple of SN kids to help with their phonics.

I don't see how it's a problem. It's just another tool in the arsenal.

I see the new 3DS is already getting warnings over use by under 6's. I know it has only just launched but I'm guessing price aside it will be popular this year!

I work in a Special School where we have twice weekly sessions on the Wii to help develop pupil's motor skills as well as tracking, focus and turn-taking skills. It is also a great motivator. We use a DS console and leap-pad type things in addition to the interactive whiteboard and more traditional type lessons. It's great for our children.

huffy I bought the Artemis Fowl Flips game/book thing for ds in the hope it'd encourage him to read to himself (extolling the virtues of reading in secret under the covers, saying he'll be allowed to play on his ds in bed as long as it's Artemis Fowl but don't tell Dad and so on). Hasn't blinking worked though

Jenai I bought the Fowl flip books for me and loved them, but found them a bit booky really. The ghoul school books are slightly more interactive and work better for the younger/less able readers ime.

And more reluctant readers too :)

silverfrog, was mostly curious about tracking for school purposes i think - so for 30 kids, rather than a sole user - although i suppose if they were used by the saem child each time... .

just trying to envision how they could be used in a classroom setting to maximum effect really. i'm involved quite a bit in spending decisions, and it's very easy to get talked into everything that comes along. unfortunately no bottomless pit of money has been identified yet, so you have to be pretty sure that you're spending on the right stuff...

hmm, yes, that could be tricky.

erm, how about software programmes like headsprout, etc? a highly recommended phonics based reading system - that certainly keeps track per child, but isn't portable, just computer based.

it is very interactive, though, and children do love it

Thanks, huffy. I'll have a look at the Ghould School version :)

ds's reading is fine really, but he will not read anything fictional. He loves having books read to him but I think, basically, he can't be bothered. Drives me nuts!

I suddenly figured that might be the case. Hence the second post about the reluctant reader.

It's quite common with boys to come to reading later and to be less interested in it. I know, as a parent of girl, we try to fight the gender stereotypes, but as a teaching assistant who speciaslises in special needs, it's a greater percentage of boys who need help with their literacy than girls.

Some boys never get into fictional reading. My husband had never read a book when I met him. He's smart, has a great job, just never liked 'made up' stories. He can absorb technical data quickly and effectively, unlike me, and is great at passing exams. He's just not a great reader!

I worried my daughter might follow him, as she showed little interest in books once she had the basic building blocks of reading. She 'knew that' and didn't want to read anything that was close to her reading age.

Now, at 10, she's JUST getting into the early Potter books, 2 years after her best friends started with it.

Readings a weird thing and as a parent I get so emotionally involved in it. I want my daughter to have my love of reading and finally, it looks like I'm getting my way. Looks like I tore my hair out for the last 4 years for very little reason :)

Thanks, huffy. And yes, I know what you mean about getting emotionally involved

I am presuming that the use of games consoles is in addition to normal lessons and not instead of them? How much time does each chid have in a week?

I think DS2's infant school has a handful of Nintendo DS. Certainly the HT encourages the use of Maths training tools. She has competitions with the children to see who can do the mental maths the quickest. This obviously appeals to a lot of children. What better thing than beating the HT on a DS!? She doesn't let them win either so they have to know their stuff.

However, this isn't instead of more normal teaching; it is another way of thinking. Rote learning and doing timed tests is incrediably boring and if using the DS helps then what is the problem? As far as I know, they don't use the DS unless they are confident that the children understand the concepts first.

DS1 is also encouraged to use the Wii at home at the recommendation of his OT to improve his coordination as he has SEN. I wouldn't be unhappy if the school got one too. They are at least sociable (although the DS can be too if you have multiple user games).

Quite apart from that, more and more of school time uses a computer, as much of the life will be after school. Juniors have been using Mathletics for ages (DS1 loves that he can compete against children in the US for example). Both the infants and the juniors have just started using Wizkids. Why would you want to stop children using such packages when using computers is becoming so central to our lives?

So my question is all about getting the balance right and where that balance is.

I'd like to point out that an argument which goes "There's nothing wrong with drinking wine, no problem whatsoever, so harm done, but I only have a glass or two in the evening anyway" is somewhat disingenuous. So the argument that the kids only have a few minutes exposure to the games every few weeks (REALLY?) is equally disingenuous.

Video experience will always come at the expense of direct experience. And if my early primary dc was watching TV in school then I would indeed ask him to be excused from that activity.

There are sound and well thought out reasons why some of us chose not to allow our young children to play video games or watch TV. I would appreciate schools respecting that decision, and for parents and schools to be able to work together.

There is a time and place for technology in education, and I believe ALL parents can agree that at some point video technology as an enhancement in learning becomes appropriate. I suspect that time may be closer to 10 years than 5 years. It would be great if the discussion could be about when not if. For example, at what point do all the kids do their work on something like iPads? Surely after they learn how to write well with paper and pencil?

I'm also wondering if terms such as "another tool in the arsenal" suggests a fundamental approach to education which perhaps needs examining.

My youngest daughter needs help at school and has concentration problems. If i sat down with a book she shows no interest but loves to play on her ds. There are many educational games available and i dont have a problem with it if it helps. She has had hers for 3 years and still plays on it. My school do not use the ds but they do have a wii which they use once a week for P.E

I have no problem with any computer games used in for limited period, for educational purposes and designed for specific educational lessons.

But what I object to the most is that is advertising by stealth. If Nintendo REALLY wanted to do something upstanding, rather than just increase their market share by infiltrating children's every spare centimetre, then they would find a way of de-branding them and putting them out as distinct educational consoles.

Did you know they 'employ' children to 'sell' them to other children in informal settings? It's horrific. And I'm afraid I object to this move on those grounds.

I'm a teacher in Scotland and my school is using lots of games-based learning. Our first topic of the school year was 'Marine Mission' which was based on the Wii game Endless Ocean. It was fab and the kids loved it. Time on the Wii was actually very limited - it was used as an incentive and jumping off point. Other classes have used Guitar Hero (for a band tour round Europe, incorporating mainly maths and geography as well as lots of literacy and ICT), Cooking Mama and Wii mbledon. At the Scottish Learning Festival I also went to a seminar discussing games based learning which spoke about using Sonic & Mario at the Olympic Games which had been used as a geography topic (and ended up with a school having a GLOW meet with a class in Canada!), the game iPet (i think) for the PS3 and Professor Layton Mysteries for the DS (lots of literacy and problem solving skills developed from this). Huge amounts that can be done with this! I've also used Just Dance with the kids in class and some of the kids have even suggested using yoga moves/balances they've learned from the Wii Fit game into PE warm ups :)