6 yr old school behaviour - apparently I need counselling

[MollieO]

Have also posted this in the Behaviour section but hope that I might get some replies posting here.

Was told by ds's form teacher and SENCO today that ds's behavioural problems are because of my crap parenting skills. They said I need to see a counsellor to help me but didn't suggest how I actually go about it.

Ds is in yr 2 (6.4). He refuses to do school or homework. He boasts to his classmates about the fact that he hasn't done his homework. In class he copies other pupil's work. He is disruptive in choir practice. The music teacher wanted him to sing a solo at the Christmas concert but his behaviour means he won't be allowed to do so now. No mention of him being disruptive in class, just that he won't do his work.

All of these are apparently my fault because I am a single parent.

I suggested before half term that ds should be referred to an Ed Psych (which either I or my health insurers would pay for as he is at private school). Teachers said that work isn't the problem (even though he isn't doing any he hasn't fallen behind) but his attitude to work is.

They have suggested that if I sit him down and give him ten minutes to do his homework he will comply and do it. Makes me wonder what they think I have actually been doing to try and get him to do it.

I am curious to know what a counsellor could add and interested if anyone has been through this. Looking at the other parents in the year I reckon I am one of the strictest. I expect ds to try his best and I don't reward spelling test marks with new toys (which a lot of others appear to do).

Ds refused to do his homework over half term so missed various activities because of that. He doesn't have tv on until he has done his homework (so he doesn't see any tv at the moment). Not sure what else I can do.

[MollieO]

I'd hope not LIZS. It isn't an academic school and there are children in ds's class and the other class in the year with SNs.

One of the other mums had similar issues with her eldest at ds's age. He is now considered to be one of the brightest boys in the school. He had the same teacher as ds does now. I have no idea if ds will go the same way but I do know that they have seen it all before in terms of ds's behaviour.

[sarahfreck]

MollieO.
I wonder if some more individual support/counselling would be better than the council run parenting course. The reason I say this is that maybe the parenting course will just cover the usual strategies (rewards, consequences, spending fun time with your dc, being consistent - Supernanny stuff really) and it seems as if you have been trying this really well already.
If it were me I'd think about:
a) getting and ed psych report for dc - to see if there are any issues - for example being extremely bright.

b) getting a clinical psych report for dc - to see if there are any emotional issues involved

b) try stopping using fun times with you as rewards ( and then withdrawing them) so that your dc still gets the fun relationship building-time with you as he may need this to move forwards. Use TV, computer time earlier bedtime(?) as rewards/consequences.

c) consider some sort of counselling (for you initially but maybe later for ds), not because I think you have crap parenting skills but because it may help you get to whatever is going on behind it all and help your ds to get in a better frame of mind regarding school work.

d) think back and see if there may have been any trigger for ds's behaviour. Was he like this from the beginning? When did it start? Could it be connected to any particular teacher/classmate? Do you think there is any particular stress or anxiety he experiences connectd with school work.

If he was avoiding other people's requests of him more generally I would suggest looking into PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidance) but I'm not sure whether this would apply if it is only school work he refuses to do.

I hope you get things more sorted!

[pickledsiblings]

Would no homework = no Stagecoach be a step too far?

One thing I do with my DCs re: homework is that I always write on it how long it took, just to give the teacher an idea of the level of difficulty. It may be that the work is too easy for him but timing how long it takes adds a new level of competition with himself. "See if you can do it faster than last night's" and all that. You could even write the results down in a little book and see if he can beat his record for the shortest amount of time spent on a maths homework etc. (with the proviso that he gets it right of course). You could keep a note of the marks too and do some statistical analysis. OK, OK, I know, I'm getting carried away now .

[nobodyisasomebody]

I had all this with ds and this particular bit

He has absolutely no interest in pleasing me at all. Which is apparently unusual for a 6 yr old and one of the reasons they question my parenting skills

I am also a single mum and was called in time and again about ds. Also did a parenting course.(waste of time)

Lots of things you report he did too.

My opinion is he is hyper bright, bored and fed up with busy work.

He needs assessing by an educational psychologist and that will include recommendations for the school.

Where in the uk are you?

[MollieO]

Thanks Sarah. Am happy to have parenting counselling but no clue how to access it. I assume the health visitor can advise (although they don't appear to answer the phone).

Counselling me won't help to reveal whatever is going on with ds. He won't tell me why he won't do work other than to say he'll end up getting more work to do!

No triggers that I can think of. He was assessed at school as having visual sequential memory problems, so processing issues.

Focus of today's meeting didn't even mention that and the sole discussion was ds's poor attitude. I just think that things with ds haven't changed since year 1 but school attitude to him has. I do think there was a bit of lone parent not interested in education and ds is only at private school because ex is paying school fees. The only bit of which is true is that I am a lone parent.

When I told them what I did for a living (at the end of the meeting) they visibly looked surprised (as if they needed to re-evaluate their pre-conceived opinion of me).

Doesn't avoid other people's or my requests in other areas non school related!

I have tried the competing against yourself, the clock etc but it may be worth another go.

Reluctant to threaten no Stagecoach as it affects other children, not just ds.

[cornsilkpyrotechnicqueen]

Does he not want to do the school/homework as he think it's pointless? You really need an ed psych report or even a psychologist to find out how he thinks.I am that the teachers feel that they are qualified to assess the cause of his behavioural difficulties.

[FlankerMum]

MollieO - It sounds to me as if your DS is highly intelligent but that he may have huge problems actually doing school work / homework.

If the school are describing his abilities as distinctly average could it be possible that he uses his high intelligence to achieve this average performance despite his visual sequential memory problems? Could it be possible that this feat actually involves a huge and tiring effort for him which he feels is unappreciated and therefore not worthwhile?

What happens when he does actually put in this huge and tiring effort? Does he receive praise and acknowledgement for his effort? No, he gets more work to do, requiring more tiring effort. Does he realise that all this effort is gaining him only an average mark? Does he realise that inside he is much brighter than his classmates? I think he has been trying honestly to tell you what the problem is but can only articulate it in terms of 'they'll only give me more to do'.

I think that if the above is true then you need to help him find more coping strategies and acknowledge the effort it costs him. Perhaps experiment by reading out the homework to him and have him respond verbally then work together to get it written into his book. Afterwards, talk about how tricky that was and how impressed you are with him.

You may just find that by acknowledging the difficulties he has and the effort he puts in that his attitude changes considerably as he will feel that you are on his side and are helping him rather than battling against him.

Good luck

[MistyB]

Good luck with the boook. It is a million miles away from the carrot / stick approach and it is difficult to agree with everything he says but with a child who is unmotivated by rewards, it is worth a try.

BTW, Golf and Drama could earn him more than a first in astro physics!!

[MollieO]

Well I tried to implement the new regime and failed spectacularly. Started in the car on the way home when I mentioned to ds what we would do when we got home - ie snack then 10 minutes homework, timed, or else he'd have to do it tomorrow at school.

His response was that he likes doing homework in his break time at school.

He had spelling and reading to do. Managed to persuade him to do his reading as a bedtime story to me. No hope with spelling.

Day 1 in the MollieO house, 9 school days left to go.

As for choir, he said he gets upset when the other boys laugh at him singing solo. Not sure how much truth there is in that. He wants to do the Christmas solo as a surprise for his grandma so hopefully he'll start behaving. If the other boys are making fun then that doesn't help (think there may be some needle in the playground about it). He does have an exceptional voice and loves singing so I hope that he overcomes whatever is going on at school.

[claig]

I agree with cory. It is significant that he boasts to other children about not doing work

"He boasts to his classmates about the fact that he hasn't done his homework. In class he copies other pupil's work. He is disruptive in choir practice. The music teacher wanted him to sing a solo at the Christmas concert but his behaviour means he won't be allowed to do so now."

He likes singing, and yet is disruptive in choir practice. I think he is in a battle of wills with the school and you about schoolwork. I think it means that he is unhappy in some way, and is wilfully challenging authority. The boasting shows that he is proud of it and knows that he is "winning". O think the SENCO may well be right, that it is a form of attention seeking. He likes attention with his acting and singing, and you said that you are often not able to give him attention, and maybe he is missing that.

I don't believe that it is because he finds teh work boring or is too clever for it. It may be that he doesn't like his teacher, and is willingly challenging the teacher. This situation can often become a self-fulfilling prophecy, as the teacher will be annoyed at his non-compliance and as he senses this, he will only get worse and become more non-compliant. I think that if his relationship with the teacher changed to a more positive one, where the teacher made him responsible for certain activities in the class etc. and put faith in him, then he might start to comply.

I think it is quite serious, and therefore a counsellor might help, if only because it would bring any unhappiness to the fore and would also act as a form of attention, which may be able to be channelled in a positive direction.

[claig]

Do you help him with his homework or is he left to do it on his own? He read a book to you, maybe because you were involved? Do you do the spelling together with him? Is it that he can't be bothered to do it on his own?

[MollieO]

I don't know if he boasts generally, I was told he said it on Monday about not doing homework over half term but it's not been mentioned before so I don't know if it a new thing.

He does like singing but isn't disruptive at all at Stagecoach - all his teachers were pretty surprised when I questioned his behaviour as they view him as a model pupil.

With regard to school he didn't tell me he'd been chosen for a solo and I didn't know about the bad behaviour at choir until today.

He doesn't challenge authority outside school but I assume that is because he is doing activities he enjoys.

We are now in the third year of school and the third year of this behaviour so not sure I can say he hasn't liked all his teachers. He says he does like his teachers (I didn't like the year 1 one but ds wouldn't have been aware of that).

What sort of counsellor should I be looking for and where do I find one? Our local health visiting service is worse than useless. I left a message this morning and they didn't bother to call back. I tried all day but it goes straight to answer machine. I recall when ds was a baby they were exactly the same (although my GP banned the health visitor from seeing ds after various problems we had with her).

One thing I do struggle to make his teachers understand is he will tell me nothing about his day. He has been the same since nursery and I don't think any of his teachers have really believed me.

If his behaviour is attention seeking you'd think he'd want positive attention rather than negative. I imagine most children would be keen to tell their parents if they had been singled out for something good but not ds. He didn't tell me he was rugby captain until after the rugby tournament was over and then I didn't believe him as the coach hadn't mentioned it and ds does make up very elaborate stories about things he reckons he's done. Apologised to him when I read it in the match report! Nor did he tell me he was top in the golf order of merit for his age group. Once I found out (from an email from the golf pro) I asked him and he told me about the competition he'd done.

In any of the out of school activities I have no expectation on ds to achieve a particular standard (some of his friends' parents do have very high expectations and want their dcs to compete, win prizes, certificates etc). In school the only thing I expect of ds is that he will make an effort and try his best.

[claig]

Getting positive attention is what is expected and is the norm, and often is not the sort of attention that is wanted. Being disruptive gets more attention quicker and the teacher certainly takes notice. Sometimes a child can sense if the teacher maybe doesn't like them enough or doesn't give them the attention or respect that they think they deserve. All children have different levels of attention that they need. The more needy children, often get the attention that they need by being disruptive and non-compliant. It also has the added bonus that the rest of the class look up to them for their courage in challenging authority.

'In any of the out of school activities I have no expectation on ds to achieve a particular standard'

maybe he would prefer you to have high expectations, maybe then he would try harder and compete more, and might tell you that he had been rugby captain. Maybe he feels that it is not worth trying. It sounds like he can't be bothered to compete.

Sometimes, it may be that he is in fact astoundingly clever, and he in purpose misbehaves and doesn't try so that he doesn't stand out from the rest of the class, because if he stood out then he would lose friends. That sounds a bit like why he is disruptive in choir class when the others make fun of his very good singing. It could be that he is too advanced for that school, and needs to be in a school of high achievers. That might spur him on to compete with other high achievers, without needing to hide his talents under teh disguise of not performing.

[claig]

Have you tried having him IQ tested? Also it is possible that he might do work for a 1-to-1 private tutor that he gets on with.

[MollieO]

Think I misphrased that. I expect him to try his best and I am very proud of him when he does.

What I don't do is say that he must be in the A rugby team and if he isn't then it isn't worth him playing rugby at all, which is the sort of thing I see others doing. He is 6. The activities he does are for his enjoyment. I expect and hope that he will enjoy them.

Out of school he does try his best, absolutely. And he sees the benefits of doing so.

I really don't think he is outstandingly clever and I am certain that his teacher doesn't think he is either. He does two 1-to-1 lessons a week with the SENCO (whom he says he doesn't like and I'm beginning to think it is mutual). For the last two terms he had the other SENCO who absolutely adored him and said to me recently that she really misses teaching him. The class TA thinks he is lovely too. He has a way of engaging with people that is pretty rare, a sort of easy confidence in himself and interest in those who is talking to.

Haven't got his IQ tested. I assume that is what an Ed Psych would do.

[claig]

He obviously is competitive, because he competes at golf and is one of the best singers and was a rugby captain. So it is strange that he doesn't tell you about these achievements. Do you get time to watch him playing golf? Maybe you are sometimes too busy and he feels that he is alone, as he has no brothers and sisters to share his achievements with?

[claig]

'whom he says he doesn't like and I'm beginning to think it is mutual'

It's always mutual. He will sense it, and the SENCO has already said that he is attention seeking, and this may cloud the SENCO's view of him.

He does sound quite exceptional, even his non-compliance is quite exceptional.

[shimmerysilversparkler]

Leninguido that is like my ds too and my horrid ex, ds's Dad! Think I need to find out more too.

[MollieO]

I watch him play golf and rugby (and cricket in the summer). I see his end of term performance at Stagecoach, always go to his school concerts and also when he does piano recitals in school assembly (when the piano teacher gets a selection of boys to play their latest pieces). I do everything as there is no one to share attendance with. Sometimes my mum (ds's grandma) will come to school stuff.

The SENCO is the only one who says he is attention seeking. His form teacher hasn't said so and the other SENCO didn't mention it.

I'm really not sure he is exceptional (other than his defiance!!). Lots of children have talents. He was captain of the B rugby team as he doesn't have the ability of the As.