6 yr old school behaviour - apparently I need counselling

[MollieO]

Have also posted this in the Behaviour section but hope that I might get some replies posting here.

Was told by ds's form teacher and SENCO today that ds's behavioural problems are because of my crap parenting skills. They said I need to see a counsellor to help me but didn't suggest how I actually go about it.

Ds is in yr 2 (6.4). He refuses to do school or homework. He boasts to his classmates about the fact that he hasn't done his homework. In class he copies other pupil's work. He is disruptive in choir practice. The music teacher wanted him to sing a solo at the Christmas concert but his behaviour means he won't be allowed to do so now. No mention of him being disruptive in class, just that he won't do his work.

All of these are apparently my fault because I am a single parent.

I suggested before half term that ds should be referred to an Ed Psych (which either I or my health insurers would pay for as he is at private school). Teachers said that work isn't the problem (even though he isn't doing any he hasn't fallen behind) but his attitude to work is.

They have suggested that if I sit him down and give him ten minutes to do his homework he will comply and do it. Makes me wonder what they think I have actually been doing to try and get him to do it.

I am curious to know what a counsellor could add and interested if anyone has been through this. Looking at the other parents in the year I reckon I am one of the strictest. I expect ds to try his best and I don't reward spelling test marks with new toys (which a lot of others appear to do).

Ds refused to do his homework over half term so missed various activities because of that. He doesn't have tv on until he has done his homework (so he doesn't see any tv at the moment). Not sure what else I can do.

[Lougle]

MollieO - you don't strike me as a person who would receive a MN hug well, so look away .

You know, I think that you and I have disagreed on a lot of threads about a lot of things, but one thing I have never thought is 'there's a bad parent' or 'wow, she is off-beam'.

Can I suggest that, generally speaking, if a school is used to x method working for most children, they tend to look elsewhere if there is a problem.

You have known for some time that your DS is 'different'. Now you are being blamed for what is probably a SEN in your DS.

Don't wear this. It won't help you or your DS.

Your school is right. It isn't 'normal' for a 6 year old to be indifferent to your pleasure.

However, come over to the SN board, and ask how many 6 year olds are indifferent to our pleasure, and you'll see the statistic shoot up.

Perhaps this is your catalyst to really push for someone to understand your DS? Because his school doesn't.

[MollieO]

He's at private school because it costs the same to send him there as it would have been to send him to state school and use a childminder. Seemed mad to send him to a school with a class of 32, recently out of special measures with a head who didn't like children from the local Montessori - 'we always have problems with them' - and who was dead against grammar schools (we are in catchment for out of county grammar). I figured she was negating both his start and future in educational terms.

I was shocked at how affordable private school was.

The school ds is at is non-selective and has a good reputation. The work they do in class is interesting (at least to me). It is all boys and they focus on fun ways that engage boys (school is surrounded by woodland and they use this for lessons). Despite everything ds says he is very happy there.

I have no problem with doing a parenting course if it will help. I've spoken to a couple of friends this morning who know ds and know the teachers. Both have laughed at my apparent lack of parenting skills.

Ds's year 1 teacher said she had never taught a child like him. The issues he had in year 1 continue in year 2 but the focus of the 'blame' has shifted to me. Ds is a very determined/stubborn child and always has been. He is the same with me as he is with anyone else. I do wonder how I can magically make him comply when teachers with probably 50 years teaching experience between them have so far failed (thinking of his reception, year 1 and year 2 teachers). He isn't motivated by things that other children seem to thrive on - eg couldn't care less whether he gets house points or not. He does like winning and is very competitive outside of school - eg at rugby.

School and cons paed don't think he has SN.

Fwiw my mother thinks he is far brighter than I was at his age. I was the boring child who could read before I went to school (I never had reading scheme books to contend with because of that) and was always top of the class.

Wordsonascreen why do you think I should ditch Stagecoach?

Lenin your ds sounds very like mine. All I can recommend is you don't leave things like I did hoping that they would improve in time.

[VivaLeBeaver]

Ah I see, he's not conforming, not fitting in their box of what they expect a pupil to be. Therefore it must be your parenting.

Mmmmm, think this says more about the school than it does about him or you. But I would do the parenting course, ask for an ed psych referral to get more opinions.

[Lougle]

Being very determined and stubborn isn't an issue in itself, though, is it? What is concerning is that he won't do anything for them.

[Lougle]

Agree, as is usual, with Justabout.

MollieO, if a parent is a sensible sort, which you certainly seem to be, and they have concerns that range above 'I didn't realise parenting would be this hard' (which most people think from time to time), then I think there is probably something to find.

Was the paediatrician you saw a community paediatrician, or a developmental paediatrician? Was your DS his normal self with the Paed, or more or less co-operative than you would expect?

What does your DS say about the school's observations and your observations? What is he claiming as the problem?

I am presuming he is fairly articulate if you say he is bright. Would you say his language is appropriate for 6, or slightly 'eccentric'?

Does he have any particular topics that he focusses on quite rigidly?

How is he with routine - love, hate, or something in between?

How is he if you change your mind suddenly? Does he mind spontaneity?

[MistyB]

mollieo Your DS sounds like a stong and independent boy. I would read Unconditional Parenting which talks about how to understand what motivates children and supporting them in their decisions. Some of the ideas in the book are difficult to get your head round any you might not agree with all of them but I suspect you have an internally motivated boy who just doesn't see the point in "house points" and homework for the sake of it when he can do it anyway.

He has probably already figured out that adults (including teachers) are not experts in everything, despite what some adults would like children to believe.

Alfie Kohn has written other books including The Schools our children deserve and The Homework Myth: Why our children get too much of a bad thing. I haven't read these but they might help you understand where your son is coming from and how to move forward and work with the school in a less confrontational way (I think their behaviour towards you is patronising and not very collaborative!)

[MollieO]

Definitely not of the liberal parenting school. I have high expectations of behaviour and ds complies except when it comes to anything related to school.

We saw a community paed and his notes/observations were reviewed by a cons paed whom I spoke to by phone last week (original assessment was a year ago). Ds did what he was asked to do and co-operative. There is no issue of non-cooperation generally, just schoolwork specifically.

The school SENCO tested him when he was 5.5 and he had a vocabulary range of a 9 yr old. He spoke early and is very confident.

No rigid behaviour or interets at all and no issues with routine. GP (who is also a paed registrar) said he is definitely not autistic. He has happy with spontnaeity. He is generally pretty laid back. He was under the care of a cons paed from birth to 4.5 and no behavioural/autistic concerns at all.

He is much like his peers. The one difference I would say is his confidence - he has always been very happy to talk to adults. He's never been shy. He probably has less parental attention than some of his peers simply because I work full time and there is only one of me. He has always been very independent and wants to do everything for himself.

[MollieO]

Should add that the only reason I can get out of ds as to why he won't do his work is that if he does he will simply get more to do and he can't see the point of that.

[EndangeredSpecies]

OP I think you've hit the nail on the head with the competitive thing. Have you ever tried getting a school friend to come and do his homework with your ds? I bet it would make a difference. He could be missing some good old fashioned sibling rivalry. Perhaps on his own he just doesn't see the point or feel the need to strive. Perhaps he wants a bit of an audience to show what he can do.

I've noticed with my 5 year old that if I ask him, individually, to read to me, he will either refuse point blank or his attention will wander. If he then sees me reading with his sister he's suddenly all ears.

Just a thought.

[Lougle]

My only thought, and it wouldn't be a criticism of you, is that you seem to value him the same whether or not he does his homework. You don't give him treats for doing his homework, and equally, nothing you have found is painful enough for him to lose.

I was a bit like that as a child. If I was grounded, I just got on with it, and read a book. I was happy. I wasn't that bothered about going out to play, because it was actually quite hard work. So I would use grounding as a bit of a sanctuary, really.

My sister, on the otherhand was tortured by a grounding. She was a real social butterfly.

Now, if my Mum and Dad had grounded me and taken my books, I would have cried like a baby, I think.

What does he really love, or value? What really excites him? Could you suggest that if he does really well at school (not grades, but complying) then you would do something of his choice together?

[MollieO]

Have tried others to get him to do his homework when he goes on playdates after school (school mum friends have offered rather than me insisting!). Doesn't work at all.

I've always emphasised that effort is important, not the end result. Ds knows that I am proud of him if he makes an effort.

He loves going to a particular restaurant so I have tried that as a carrot for him. He didn't try at school so we didn't go.

I said we would go and play crazy golf together. Again he didn't do his homework over half term so we didn't go.

Honestly I am fed up with carrying out the various threats I make (I always follow through).

He has always been able to amuse and entertain himself so there seems to be little I can do in terms of deprivation that actually has any effect - I can't take him away from himself!

[MollieO]

MistyB I have ordered the Unconditional Parenting book to arrive tomorrow. Looks interesting. Frankly I'm willing to try anything.

[pickledsiblings]

MollieO, it is obvious that homework/school work has become a battlefield for the two of you. You seem locked in a cycle which counselling may help to unlock. Give it a go, what have you got to lose? I would even put that spin on it with your DS.

I agree with the ditch Stagecoach comment but probably for different reasons. Go bowling/swimming/bike riding together instead .

Good luck.

[MollieO]

What's wrong with Stagecoach?

[MollieO]

Found a council run parenting course. During the day. Would mean taking a day off work to attend each session so effectively a week's annual leave. I'm waiting for a call back from the health visitor but I'll be a bit if the only course available is during the day.

[pickledsiblings]

Nothing wrong with Stagecoach. It's just IIRC v. expensive and it lasts 1.5 hrs. Both the time and the money could be better spent doing other things together. Your DS doesn't seem to need the confidence boost of it either, but it does sound like you could do to spend more time together (I'm just going on what you've said btw).

[MollieO]

Lenin I hope you have a better meeting than mine!

I'd forgotten but I now remember the SENCO said that ds was attention-seeking when we spoke at a parents' evening earlier in the year, 8 months ago. That was because he didn't want to do his reading homework.

I think a lot of it is probably because teacher like to pigeon hole their pupils and they are having difficulty understanding where ds fits. One of the other schoolmums thinks ds will be a great inventor and another said I should look into Mensa membership for him. I was a bit at that latter one!

I wish those who said he shouldn't do Stagecoach would come back and tell me why.

[MollieO]

Thanks pickled. Ds's class is 3 hours. He loves it. It is the only time the entire weekend we aren't together and enables me to get on and do boring chore stuff. That's not the reason he does it. But if he didn't do it he wouldn't be getting any more of my time!

The two things that he apparently has an exceptional talent for are golf and singing and neither will help him get anywhere at school.

[Hullygully]

I have to say that I have a lot of sympathy with his reasoning.

Not very helpful, sorry.

[MollieO]

Yes. Quality of it depends on the local franchise. Ours is fab. Ds's year 1 teacher recommended it because of his singing talent.

He started last term doing the 1.5 hour class and I'd intended to keep it to that until he was nearer 7 (they move up when they are 6 to 7). However the principal said that he would be bored and strongly recommended the longer class. He did a summer school week which I thought would give me an indication of whether he'd enjoy a longer class. He absolutely loved it and loves going each week. He has an amazing talent for learning lines - can learn them from reading them once.

They do acting, singing and dancing.

[LIZS]

Hate ot say it but suspect the school may be tryign yto "manage" your ds out. If he doesn't cooeprate and do his school work it will have a disruptive and distracting influence in the classroom whether he is actually being disruptive or not. Agree that both the school and you need to develop strategies to encourage him and build up his self confidence to produce what he knows but fear they may be lacking the will.