6 yr old school behaviour - apparently I need counselling

[MollieO]

Have also posted this in the Behaviour section but hope that I might get some replies posting here.

Was told by ds's form teacher and SENCO today that ds's behavioural problems are because of my crap parenting skills. They said I need to see a counsellor to help me but didn't suggest how I actually go about it.

Ds is in yr 2 (6.4). He refuses to do school or homework. He boasts to his classmates about the fact that he hasn't done his homework. In class he copies other pupil's work. He is disruptive in choir practice. The music teacher wanted him to sing a solo at the Christmas concert but his behaviour means he won't be allowed to do so now. No mention of him being disruptive in class, just that he won't do his work.

All of these are apparently my fault because I am a single parent.

I suggested before half term that ds should be referred to an Ed Psych (which either I or my health insurers would pay for as he is at private school). Teachers said that work isn't the problem (even though he isn't doing any he hasn't fallen behind) but his attitude to work is.

They have suggested that if I sit him down and give him ten minutes to do his homework he will comply and do it. Makes me wonder what they think I have actually been doing to try and get him to do it.

I am curious to know what a counsellor could add and interested if anyone has been through this. Looking at the other parents in the year I reckon I am one of the strictest. I expect ds to try his best and I don't reward spelling test marks with new toys (which a lot of others appear to do).

Ds refused to do his homework over half term so missed various activities because of that. He doesn't have tv on until he has done his homework (so he doesn't see any tv at the moment). Not sure what else I can do.

[estland]

I also forgot to mention that in our family Dad is very soft person & doesn't have any confidence in himself (never reprimands our DS) plus I take control of most of the household, organisational issues. Daddy never seems to have any initiative at all. Therefore I took on myself both roles: a role of a mother and a role of a father. Which is totally wrong. You, as a sinlge mother, may be in a similar position but not by choice... I think that you should try and be less dominating (please don't get offended only) and try and also think a lot about yourself. Do more for yourself, maybe take care of yourself more. I think our children ultimately don't appreciate if we forget about ourselves also... JUst a though..

[estland]

We had a similar situation with our son (4.5) when he started Reception last year. He was very disruptive and very bored.

MollieO, you mentioned that "Looking at the other parents in the year I reckon I am one of the strictest". I have actually observed one thing while I was in Britain. Compared to my country British parents are not very strict with their children so therefore schools appear much stricter for an average British child. Having said so, I am myself a strict mother BUT in Britain it seems to be that I was over strict in comparison to other mothers. I realised that in my own country this aspect would not cause a problem as majority of parents are the same as me. But in Britain it was creating a situation. Basically, if you are stricter to your child at home than actual teachers are at school, he won't be motivated to behave well outside of your control. For some reason, the majority of people in Britain think that disruptive children must be a product of over-protective or very relaxed parent who doesn't impose any rules and discipline. So, for me it was really hard to understand it at first what was the real issue. Then I realised that by being more strict to my son than other parents or his teachers, I was essentially nurturing his bad behavior. I was constantly reprimanding him for bad behavior, denying gifts, toys, etc. But the stricter I became the worst he rebelled and more apart we drifted from each other.
We're now living abroad where parents are generally much stricter and discipline is a lot stricter in kindergartens and schools. I have noticed that my child is behaving here because he is fitting in much better and I don't have to raise my voice even slightest now.

I fear if we have to go to Britain again... Because naturally I am a strict mother and I understand that in Britain I will have to be much more relaxed in this respect.

Sorry if I wasn't helpfull, but I think this may be the answer... from my personal experience.

[SantasMooningArse]

I hope the choir works out for him- he's very lucky to get the chance (ds2 was a school chorister and soloist, singing with the male voice choir (we're in Wales, that's a big deal) but new Head pulled funding.

They also pulled golf funding; maybe your ds could get a tardis and attend our school circa ten years ago?

Molly, one of my boys has abandoned their Ryuder Cup souvenitr progreamme in disgust at the thought of more golf (in fairness, the Ryder was right on our soorstep) so if your ds would like it do say and I will post on.

[MollieO]

The choir school I'd look at for ds only goes to 13.5. Yes he sings all the time at home and records his songs on my old Iphone.

I'm not sure at 6 where he could go to do more singing than he actually does - Stagecoach at the weekend, choir before school plus music lessons during school. He won't be eligible to audition until March 2012 at the earliest.

[Quattrocento]

The one thing that preoccupies most parents is what happens when their voices break. They continue through to around Y8 with the trebles, but after that they probably need to become lay clerks. You will need a sport or two as a contingency (sounds like golf in your DS's case).

Truthfully, I'm a bit nervous about the fact that your DS isn't currently singing - I mean how will he know whether or not he wants to sing all the time? And it is all the time. It's not just the odd hour a week a la school choir - they sing a couple of hours a day, probably. Early service, late service, Evensong, special masses, choral festivals. It really isn't a valid choice for a child to make when he isn't already singing. Does he sing all the time at home? That's a good indication.

[MollieO]

What age was your ds when he became a chorister? I realise it is a huge commitment hence ds would only do it if he really wanted to. Ds's golf teacher reckons I shouldn't worry too much about school as ds can become a professional golfer!

[Quattrocento]

DS is a chorister - you get a fantastic musical education - but it can be a bit too much all about music IYSWIM.

It's great that your DS is passionate about music. You might want to find out what they do in the audition btw - do they just do a simple pitch test or do they expect them to sing a couple of songs/play something?

[MollieO]

Thanks Peachy BIBIC was the one I couldn't remember. Last year I thought it was a bit unnecessary for ds but now I reckon it is worth serious consideration. I'll also look at Dyscovery - thanks for the offer of your spare room, that's so kind. I'll message you for the powerpoint too, thanks for that.

Quattro he says he loves school. Surprising considering his reluctance to do anything when he is there. I never have a problem getting him to go and he gets miffed if I collect him early from after school care.

Choir school would be a big deal and I'd only do it if he wanted to. He is learning the piano and wants to learn the violin (current school only allows them to learn one instrument). Very keen on singing. We are going to an open day next term and I'll also take him to Evensong so he can see them in action so to speak.

[SantasMooningArse]

And if dyscovery is an option, check the costs to decide, remember when trying to get him there that the Ryder Cup course is very nearby......

With ds1 it'd be a bead shop. DS3 a promise to sit and stare at a PC blankly. DS4 a train.

All boys do it.

[SantasMooningArse]

Oh and DS1 (the Aspie) says give him tokens to convert to cash for golf sessions if he does cooperate but don;t pressure them- make it spontaneous.

[Quattrocento]

Oh that's disappointing. Can I ask whether or not your DS actually enjoys his school? Because when I ask DS if he's had a good day, the answer is always either that school was 'cool' or 'ultracool'. Is your DS positive and enthusiastic about the school - before we all write it off as being utterly useless.

Oh and about the choir school thing - is your DS very musical? Wouldn't advocate one unless he is very keen on singing and plays a couple of instruments. Tends to be all about music.

[SantasMooningArse]

(As for attendings chool in his PJ's- i;d do that. I am Harsh Mother LOL )

(Well OK I might not but I have certainly considerd it and come close)


Just to show how a child who even comes clsoe to a potential AS diagbosis will hate homework, ds1 is up for a aplce at a specialist AS Base in September and they have none at all as it's quite usual for AS kids to not cope with it. If he hs any traits at all I would see the refusal and lack of response to bribes as a manifestation of that, tbh.

[SantasMooningArse]

WRt to assessment- that was BIBIC I think. they don;t label, but can give you hints and work to move forwards IYKWIM. There's also the Dyscovery centre in Newport now that is similar but more AS / Dyslexia etc and I would have a look at that also if I were you; Dyscovery runs alongside my MA and i;ve seen good things.


WRt to social skills- hmm. There does have to be an issue with social interaction for an ASD to be diagnosed but the withdrawn child thing is only one possible presentation; ds3 is the opposite- VERY friendly, everybody is his best mate. Still ahs a fairlys evere ASD though.

Also, there are a lot of kids who have many traits of AS / ASD but not actual diagnosable ASD simply becuase one aspect of it is missing; it's a tick box process in truth. 'Traits of ASD' is still something woirth getting picked up and dealt with though and absolutely both BIBIC or Dyscovery could help with that; i;d call both and see which suits you best (if you go for Dyscovery centre let me know, have the spare room).

I ahve a list of people I need to send out some powerpoints from Uni on ASD diagnosis to; if you want some (and they are good and have plenty of hints for any kid tbh) send me an MN message as that is where I store my 'to post to' list.

[MollieO]

Quattro it is an all boys school. If I could afford it and do the hours I'd switch him in year 3 to another all boys prep that advocates no homework at all. I don't see the benefit of it at all other than to make for conflict at home. The amount is inconsequential so I think it is more about the parents than the boys. The other prep doesn't offer wraparound care and is stonkingly expensive so a non-starter.

The other alternative if ds is interested is a choir school. Local to us but requires choristers to board. No idea about homework policy but at least he wouldn't be having a nightly battle with me.

Before I get flamed, ds would only go to this if that is what he wanted and not before year 4 (weekly boarding too).

[MollieO]

Thanks Peachy - love the festive name!!

I think if one thing is now clear it is to get an Ed Psych referral. I told the SENCO today that I'd need her to do a letter to my GP. She said she was happy to do it today but I suggested waiting to give the two week homework trial she had suggested a go (I thought it would seem pretty dismissive of me not to give it a go even though I doubt it will work).

The community paed he saw last year thought ds may have Aspergers but the cons paed reviewed the assessment and concluded that he didn't. I always thought that Aspies lacked social skills so since ds is hugely sociable I suppose I dismissed that as a possibility.

I know on another thread ages ago you mentioned a voluntary place in Somerset where he could be assessed. At least I think it was you but I can't for the life of me remember what it was called.

I don't like banning everything either. It makes for a miserable time for both of us and really doesn't seem to have an effect. If I switched completely to the fall out approach ds would be attending school daily in his pyjamas.

[Quattrocento]

Mollie, can I ask if your DS is in a mixed school or a boys' school

I ask because I'm truly truly grateful that DS is in a boys' school with a highly enthusiastic Head full of zeal to teach boys in a way that is appropriate to boys.

See boys are generally a bit useless at this sort of age. Whereas DD would be challenging herself and trying to do the most super piece of homework EVER, DS will just do a lazy scrawl and hand it in (and then be disappointed if he didn't get housepoints for his "effort")

One of the key differences between DD's school and DS's school is that DS has hardly any homework. Boys don't respond to it particularly well (apparently). It's all about capturing their imaginations. It really has worked for DS.

And this isn't a hippy Steiner sort of place. It's academically selective and full of bright boys. It's just that young boys aren't terribly capable at that age.

By the way, we've never met but not for one minute do I believe that you need counselling

[tethersend]

If the school's strategy is to keep him in at breaktimes, it's hardly engendering a love of learning is it? It's completely counter-productive.

You need to ask them what other strategies they have tried. It will be the EP's first question.

(Your mum sounds great BTW )

[SantasMooningArse]

The lines thing is a flag to SEN as well- I have some myself and I once knew all the lines in a west end production after seeing the play once.

It's a great skill; has seen me through a fair few exams and tests (and arguments too, never knowingly short of a word perfect quote from an adversary )


SEn doesn;t have to eman any lack in IQ or whatever, justa different processing method and I would honestly say, as someone with a bit of knowledge, that he would benefit from a full Ed Psych appointment (or clinical psych with a specialism) becuase he seems to be being penalised on all corners and must feel rather disliked atm.

[MollieO]

tethersend are you sure you're not my mother? If she had a computer and knew how to access the internet I'd be certain that you are her!!

She thinks I should move schools and get an au pair with the money I'll save in fees (we don't have a spare bedroom so not sure where the au pair would sleep!).

[SantasMooningArse]

Hi Mollie (tis Peachy)


'It's pretty much standard to do so. For example when I finally managed to get my son referred to a psychologist because he was hearing voices in his head - the psychologist sent out a letter saying that before she saw him I needed to attend a parenting course!!!!!!!'

mine too; only joke was that, as they well knew, I used to help teach the farking parenting course!

Anyway.


He's not too young for assessment Moll, in fact we know that early intervention is always the best. But SENCO's are rarely (to be frank) very great, and that may be more so in a private whe (some are, I;ve met one or two but tehn I meet a lot)re SEN isn;t widely variable or common- many disorders of learning or concentration are rare after all, and a child with one might not have got half as far as your ds.

A lot of his behaviours match ds1; he won;t do anything to please anyone else, doesn't do homework (many kids won't, to do with transtion between settings- schoolwork for school etc)but excels at his own interests and always ahs time and energy for them. he has Aspergers and quite alot of kids are not picked up with that until after 6, the ARC (autism research centre) has some screening tools if you think there's any chance at all but tehre's no way of knowing from anything on here- just spotted a few similarities.

Personally I would focus on building the link between you and your ds and hope the rest would fall into palce- being constantlypalced in a situation where you need to be banning everything is ahrd on you both and becomes a challenge to him not to break. I can see how that happens though- goodness knows I am there so often! Pasta jar works a little better but nah, not much at all. I tend to do the you-get-the-fallout approach (he can avoid homework / go in without glasses etc but whatever fallout emerges he hs to deal with and he won;t get any sympathy from me)

Good luck Mollie.

[MollieO]

He gets kept in at break time to complete it. I think that most of the rest of the class are keen on their playtime so don't want to miss it.

I think the reluctance to refer is because he is making progress at school and I suppose they think his attitude to work can be changed. I feel like videoing his meltdowns at home over school work and emailing it to his teacher. I do think they think I don't make any effort to get him to do his homework or over dramatise what happens when I try.

[tethersend]

The school need to make up their mind. Either he is so disruptive that they are concerned about your parenting in which case they need to call SS and refer him to an EP, or he is fine at school, in which case there is no reason to call your parenting into question.

This does not sound like a good school for your DS.

[mutable]

too young?
ed psychs work with children far younger than your ds.

[claig]

What do the school do when he refuses to do his work? I would have thought that his refusal could lead to disruption in the class, if other children start to copy him and also refuse to work. It sets a precedent that could spread.

[MollieO]

They are quick to refer to an Ed Psych for behavourial issues that disrupt the class. From what I understand ds isn't disruptive in class and I guess being disruptive in choir is sufficiently concerning for a referral!

The reluctance does seem odd as it isn't as if they have to pay for it out of school funds.