Can I talk in front of her?

[TealReal]

DH grew up in a healthy, functional environment whereas I did not. So where we differ on opinions, I can't always see if I am tainted by upbringing (I realise we all are)

DD age 12, wants to know what we are taking about if she hears part of conversation that we are having in front of her.

I tell her that it's none of her business but DH thinks that she will learn about the world if we include her. But I don't want to explain to her about something that is of no concern to her. I think she is being nosy and should stay out of it.

DD is usually hanging around and doesn't go to bed til 9 or 9.30pm so I feel like I shouldn't have to wait until after she's in bed to talk to DH

Your thoughts are appreciated.

I think the thing here is that the only way we learn how to be adults is by watching (and listening) to other people being adults.

So if when you have a plumbing issue, you go oh look, this isn't working. Okay, what do we do next, we're going to take the lid of the cistern off and see if it's anything obvious. If it is, maybe we can fix it, if it's not then what's the next step - oh, it's to turn the isolator off and drain the cistern and have a good look. Oh that hasn't worked, now we need to call a plumber.

Surely all that is then teaching them so when they leave home and have a plumbing issue they know what steps to take?

Even family finances shouldn't be private.

Teens need to know what is a good wage, what sorts of money come into the household, how to budget, that running a household means that you have to pay certain bills, the penalities for not paying bills on time, how to prioritise needs over wants, how to not get scammed, etc. (MoneySavingExpert has some information about finance for teens.)

For example I learnt to read meters as a preteen then how to calculate how much was own from the formula on the back of the bill. I went to university to discover lots of people didn't know either of these, so showed them and have been showing people since which helps with budgeting.

Why would you talk about things you do not want her to listen to in front of her? That is plain silly.
Having done so you should answer any questions she might have. Why would you not?
"I feel she isn't going to add to the conversation." What kind of attitude is that!?
She is part of the family. She is there when you are discussing these things. If you have chosen to talk in front of her then you should include her part of your parenting task is to help her understand the world and being honest with her is one aspect of that.
My family talk about just about everything together. Complex concepts are couched in suitable terms, but no-one is pushed aside.
TBH I think that us quite simply rude. What is that teaching her.
Trust her, help her, include her ... do not push her aside.

It's actually a good thing she starts to hear about the dull aspects of being an adult. Car repairs and plumbing.

Funnily I actually get my 6 year old to help me with plumbing issues. I had to change a waste pipe and used her chalk to mark the length of the new waste pipe before cutting it.

My mum did the same which is why I have no problem tackling some simple DIY stuff. There as I've met adults who are too scared to change a light bulb.

@TealReal

It depends what you are talking about, surely. At 12, I would have expected mine to be part of most general conversations. Could you give some examples?

Thank you everyone. This thread highlights even more to me how strained our relationship is. I have had counselling and have just started again with a new person.
I have to learn things on purpose- it doesn't come naturally to me, to be a parent. So I will try and include her more in conversations.

@TealReal Sorry, I missed a chunk of the thread. Ignore my last post!

You might start to develop a better relationship if you don't keep acting like she's nosy and isn't allowed a place in the conversations that go on around her. She doesn't have to add to the conversation, your her parent, she might learn from it, teaching kids how to handle different situations is an important part of parenting. If you include her, if you start to talk more and make more space for her in your life you might find your relationship gets better. I feel sad for her that she's shut down by you and told she has no place in these conversations which are going on in front of her.

Why shouldn't she start to learn and understand about plumbing, or car maintenance, or when you shop what you are going to buy. We would discuss anything like that in front of DC and explain what they didn't understand. Knowledge is never wasted. If she says it's boring then say you don't need to listen if you're not interested.

Is she feeling left out and wants you to talk about things she is interested in? Do you ask her about school and friends and talk about those things between you.

This,
Am sure am not alone in thinking you initially meant conversations such as your trauma and issues from your childhood, not standard day to day household discussion.
But it's good to see that you've taken all the advice on board. Good luck going forward!

It is a tricky balance at this age, you do need some privacy to discuss eg financial or health worries, concerns about other family members etc. We never made our teen DCs go up to their rooms in the evenings (wouldn't have dreamt of doing so) so they have been staying up as late as us since tween age years but we still manage, either when they are out somewhere, by going out without them, or going out into the garden to talk or whatever. But any general chat about house repairs, cars, work, friends, family, they are included if they are around and interested. Really by this age they are included by default, it is a restricted number of conversations that need to be private.

Not sure if this is helpful or not but my DD and I have a date night every week. I enjoy a glass of wine while we play a board game, craft, chat etc
She's slightly younger than your DD, but if you could find some common interests and just be, you might find that helps with the bonding process while you unlock your issues.

@TealReal you clearly recognise that things aren't right and that you're struggling due to your upbringing. You sound like you may still be carrying a lot of trauma. If this is the case, perhaps consider some specific therapy such as EMDR, which is the gold standard for working through and moving on from trauma.

Please also talk to your counsellor about your parenting challenges, ask for guidance and support. Are you reading around the issue, can you identify suitable parenting support through your counsellor?

You owe it to yourself and importantly to your daughter not to repeat the experience of your own childhood. Her self esteem, self image, coping mechanisms and sense of psychological safety are built from her home life and relationship with you and her dad.

It is hard when you didn't have a good parental role model growing up to know how to parent. There's a parenting program called circle of security where I live and they talk about shark music, strange term, but it's the things that trigger you and flip you into reacting the way you were taught to react in your childhood. There's neural pathways laid down in our childhood and its really easy to fall into those patterns. It's great you're asking, it's great that you know this is an issue and that you're taking onboard what people are saying, its great you want to do better.

My mum suffered a lot of abuse as a child, tried really hard and did give us a better childhood than hers, but our childhood was also screwed up in many ways, so I do get triggered and I do find myself falling into those patterns and I have to purposefully step away, but we did have lots of love shown to us amongst the messed up bits and I think that makes it easier for me then for someone who hasn't had that. I do apologise if i find my childhood effecting how I parent my kids, I own it and work to do better. I think if I was your DD it would help me to know you wanted a closer relationship. If you find therapy isn't really helping with this specific thing maybe a parenting program or family therapy would help more. I hope the new therapist is a good fit and you and your DD can become closer.

Good to know you are getting some counselling - hopefully this will increase your confidence as a parent. Bad role models as a child does not necessarily mean that you will be a bad parent - there is nothing inevitable about that. You need to move forward confident that you will make a better job of it. You are not tied to the past - you make the future.