How to navigate a different approach to the norm on Y6 kids and smartphones.

[lilmissiehopeful]

Hi all, I have not posted on MN in years so bear with me if I'm out of the groove or there's loads of stuff on this already that I need to find.

Wondering if there's any advice here (or links to expert resources) about how to go about trying to constructively set different
norms with fellow parents about the preteens smartphones?

It seems most of my daughter’s school friends are getting smartphones when they turned 11, inc WhatsApp and some have other apps like TikTok, YT, and Instagram, which to me is (personal opinion) ridiculously young. I’m truly terrified at the prospect, especially as I know from the Y6 parents WhatsApp discussions that there has been some not at all nice stuff going on between the kids who have phones, mainly on WhatsApp. To the point where the school has had to put out firm comms reminding parents to help keep their kids safe online, reminding on recommended minimum ages for apps etc. Yet it seems lots of the girls in my daughter's peer group are on many WhatsApp groups, some have TikTok (apparently private/family only, whatever that means), some have YT accounts etc.

I’ve no idea how to try to take a different approach, without some like-minded allies, so my daughter isn’t a Lone Ranger and ends up feeling ostracised, if that makes sense? Equally I don’t want to come across as the t*t on parents WhatsApp who says ‘is anyone else like me considering a very cautious approach re apps because I’m fing terrified at the risk of letting my daughter have the kind of access to WhatsApp and other stuff that lots of other kids have.’

Each to their own of course, but surely there must be a way of navigating taking a more cautious, simpler approach, whilst my daughter is still pretty young (a couple of months from turning 11)? I expect we'll get her a phone at least when she goes to secondary in September, but even then I'd prefer she didn't have apps. Surely I can't be alone in feeling this way?

*To clarify: as above I’m not envisaging that she doesn’t have a phone at all ever - she’ll need it for safety/contact purposes when she goes to secondary school in September as she’ll walk to/fro without a parent. More that we might say that WhatsApp and other apps aren’t happening til she’s a good bit older.

Hahaha No just no, there is no need for them to have access to social media platforms like Tiktok or Snapchat. I Have 2 teens who are both very tech savy in fact they have both helped build their own PC's one is doing A-level computer science yet she has only ever used WhatsApp and YouTube.
YET there is absolutely no need for most social media, most of it servers no useful purpose. In fact it often causes more problems with young children then anything else. They don't realise the trouble they can get into when using these platforms. Most have a minimum age of at lest 13 years.

Never in a million years, would I ask other parents to not get their kid a phone, that is the height of entitlement OP. If you don't want your dc to use a smart phone do it so under your own guidance and responsibility. Do not try to control other families because it is super controlling. Do your own thing. For many people phones even smart ones are no trouble at all. Because their parents are involved, because mobiles aren't the funnest thing they get to do at home and out and about, because they actually have a life. If your dc gets sucked into phone usage it's a parenting fail.

I say this as a self professed luddite who has so far managed to navigate this with my 15 year old dc. Mobile phones are a fact of life in 2024. It's ok for year 7 kids to get a phone if parents turn all or most smart phone functionality off and check your dc's messages and activities all the time. My 15 year old is not allowed TT, Insta or YT and her usage is heavily supervised. This is fine as messaging on phones is not private where we are concentred and dd knows this. If she wants a completely private chat, she can have it face to face. She write diaries and leaves them around the house, yet I'd never even think about looking at it let alone read it as this is private. Supervising and 100% transparency in phone usage enables kids to use phones, call and message friends. Our dc's phone is not theirs. It's my husband's who pays the bill and they know they are only borrowing this phone. We have never had to punish phone use so far as dd uses it in a responsible and moderate way.

We speak about porn and inappropriate content to all our 3 dc including year 5 ds. We educate them about how content and apps are designed in such a way to create addictive behaviour. We make them aware of what people say off and online that could be grooming.

Smart phone free childhood sounds a bit of a bandwagon. Who in their right mind would give a child younger than secondary age a phone? It's totally unnecessary. But in secondary it's ok as they are maturing and becoming actual young adults. Class messaging groups can be muted, or you don't have to let your dc join. Educate them on the use if ICT and smart technologies. If you don't allow it they will find it elsewhere. You are not going to control the whole of the year 7 cohort.

I would be completely 🙄if a precious and entitled year 7 parent asked me not to get my dc a phone. Feel free to chose not to get your dc a phone but do not try and control other people. We chose to give ours a phone in secondary and supervise this heavily.

To the point where the school has had to put out firm comms reminding parents to help keep their kids safe online, reminding on recommended minimum ages for apps etc. Yet it seems lots of the girls in my daughter's peer group are on many WhatsApp groups, some have TikTok (apparently private/family only, whatever that means), some have YT accounts etc.

Ironically, your school will have instead on your dc using iPads, and dozens of screen-based apps for their learning. Schools have encouraged the use of tech for over a decade now. My dd was given iPads in nursery.

I’ve no idea how to try to take a different approach, without some like-minded allies, so my daughter isn’t a Lone Ranger and ends up feeling ostracised, if that makes sense? Equally I don’t want to come across as the tt on parents WhatsApp who says ‘is anyone else like me considering a very cautious approach re apps because I’m fing terrified at the risk of letting my daughter have the kind of access to WhatsApp and other stuff that lots of other kids have.’

I have gone it alone. It sounds to me that you are a bit of a follower and don't want to stand out or risk your dc be left out, which you are maybe inadvertently passing on to your dc.

Walk your own walk and do your own thing. It's not a bad thing for a child to learn that they can not have TT or insta when all their friends have it. It's ok to be different, it builds character. Just explain to your dc, other families have a different way of life, but you are limiting social media use.

Wow being given an iPad in nursery? How old was she? Was it to use whilst at nursery or at home? How sad I wouldn’t be happy with that.

Not much of use to add but OP you are doing the right thing. I work in a secondary school and by far the biggest cause of incidents inside and outside of school is social media. Kids of this age are not emotionally equipped or experienced to deal with a lot of what they see and they think this is reality, when it’s not.
I’ve recently been sent some info on Jonathan Haidt and his no phones before 16 movement, and he gives much food for thought.

Don’t buy the ‘you’re holding your child back’ line either. That’s a line parents use to justify giving their child a phone.
Kids pick up things very quickly so they’re not missing out on any major tech developments.

Utter, utter bollocks about the algorithms keeping you safe on social media. Yes, if you like kittens it'll show you kittens, but it'll lead you in whatever direction keeps you hooked for longer, whether that's Taylor Swift or beheadings, Liverpool FC or neo-nazis

My dd has had a phone since she was 7 - needed as part of her medical equipment but we also allowed her to use it to watch kids stuff / play games occasionally. My other dc got their phones in yr6. My dd is extremely sensible and my others not as much we have to regularly check all their phones and it’s always dd who has stuck to the rules I think having it at a younger age was actually better for her. She had no choice as needed it on her all the time but it’s been interesting how she’s been compared to my dc who were a bit older

I am all for limiting and heavily supervising phone use but I don't think it's appropriate to tell other parents how to manage their dc's phone use. TT is shockingly bad as it messes with people's attention span, not something I'd want. Some kids tho need mobiles for all sort of reason, such as health management, complex school commutes, needing to be tracked etc. If you don't want your dc to have a phone, don't get them a phone, own your choice and accept that they miss out. I don't care one bit that my dd has missed out on TT video sharing. She does use messaging apps to arrange meet ups. I'd think it's quite unhelpful not to let your secondary school dc do this.

There was a mother when my dc was in year 7 who insisted on arranging her dd's meet ups with other parents. When my dc arranged to meet up with friends they used their phones. The mum expected me to keep her in the loop and pass on the meeting details so that her dd didn't miss out as she didn't have WhatsApp. Ridiculous. Once dc was in year 7 they managed meeting friends without mummy's help. It's as if some mums do not want they dc to become independent.

Not “being independent” on the internet is no bad thing at all!

Have a look and see if there is a smartphone free childhood whatsapp group for your school. You might be surprised- ours has also started organising 'playing out' sessions. You don't have to tell anyone what to do, but you can say 'I'm thinking about having a more cautious approach, does anyone else fancy joining me?'. Parents who think their controls work are for the most part under an illusion- I've seen year 4s outside my kids' school huddling round Andrew Tate videos; 1 in 3 kids at least has seen hardcore porn by 11.

One of my children likes to watch a particular youtube channel about dogs on the TV. They only watch this but some of the clickbait options it throws up underneath are awful. The algorithms are not safe.

My eldest won't be getting one until at least year 9. They are particularly vulnerable for a number of reasons and I don't want them having unfettered access to the internet in their pocket. Their 10yo cousin is already adept at getting round parental controls. They can have a dumbphone for secondary and they won't be the only one.

Are you wilfully ignoring what I wrote? I heavily restrict use of social media and smart phone features but messaging friends to arrange meet ups is useful.

Interested to read this, thanks, is there absolutely no way she can get around the restrictions on apps and internet? I won’t be getting my DS a phone until year 7 earliest, but I am reluctant to get him a “dumb” phone when all of his year group will have smart phones, purely because it looks less “cool”. So I’m hoping I’ll be able to still get him a smartphone but without him having any access to internet. He has ADHD and zero impulse control, he’s also quite naive really and I can imagine him googling stupid stuff that will be really violent and scare him just because the idea pops into his head.

DD y6 got a phone a few months ago. She was one of the last in her class and across Y6 to get one. She has my old iPhone with a payg sim. We use Apple family controls to restrict consent and access. She has internet access (with restriction) plus WhatsApp and imessage but no social media. She has time limits for every app, and screen time limits can be set. The phone can be locked from our phones and we can see what she is looking at. It also includes her iPad so it’s all under one Apple family control system. She can’t access certain content and she can’t buy anything without digital permission. We are trying to give her the chance to learn how to use a phone and internet, but it is heavily monitored. I look through her messages every day or so just to check everything is ok. We’ve said no to TikTok, Snapchat etc but loads of kids her age have them. I don’t agree with that but I say our rules will be different to other parents, that’s life. She walks home from school and I prefer her to have the phone rather than walk without anything. She will also be going off to secondary school right across town from Sept so want her to know how to look after a phone properly leading up to that.

She is sensible though. Some kids in her class have access to all sorts, with no limits and seemingly completely unmonitored. Surprises me a bit as many of the parents at our school are very MC professional types and I thought they’d be a bit more clued up about it, but that’s their call.

Mine won’t join (and isn’t allowed to join) the big class / school WhatsApp group though. Apparently there can be a bit of trouble of there and school have been involved more than once. If DD was a bit of a loose cannon I’d think twice about it all but she is sensible and a bit scared of getting in to trouble so it currently works for us at the moment. We do have to set time limits for iPad and phone though as she can’t self regulate. I won’t let her sit there all day mindlessly scrolling or whatever.

There was a thing about this in the Times on Saturday.

https://www.thetimes.com/article/6f261e48-c2b3-4ef1-9ad7-26c5bca54f1b?shareToken=930848036914449e1fd9925f833023b5