How to approach drama with girls and angst/clingy messages on 11yo son’s phone?

[Greenring]

My son is 11 and has always been quite dramatic and intense about things. I try really hard to model calm behaviour and healthy boundaries/relationships. He is anxious and is under the care of CAMHS who think he has ocd but have not formally diagnosed. He fancies a girl in his class and has done for quite some time. They seem to be girlfriend and boyfriend on and off quite a lot, which I have discouraged and spoken to the school about, but they haven’t noticed any issues within the classroom and said his school work isn’t affected.

I’ve just looked through the messages on his phone and there seem to be quite a few silly messages where she’s tricking him into saying he likes her then says it’s a joke, then he’ll do it to her a few days later... but he keeps asking if she likes him every few days. He mentioned in real life to me that some other people had tricked him into saying he liked her and then said it was a joke, so I don’t know whether other people had her phone or whether it was just her. It’s a recurring theme. I’ve spoken to him about it previously and partly think it’s juet a silly kid thing but it is really upsetting him.

He is coming across as really intense and desperate in these messages and I don’t know what to do about it. He also calls himself worthless whilst talking about why she wouldn’t go out with him. The girl seems to be manipulating him into saying he likes her as an ego boost and then talks about how she has been rejected so many times and perhaps they’ve both moved on... it is making me cringe and reads like something an angst filled teenager would say. But they are both only eleven.

She rants to him at one point that she gets depressed and wants to die and a falling out with another friend is making it worse. The thing is that I know she has also had long term mental health problems. I don’t think it was a serious comment but I am wondering whether I should screenshot this and inform the school.

How would you approach this? Normal kid stuff or what? His dad is like this as an adult so I don’t want my son to end up like that.

I definitely do see it as inappropriate but am at a loss with it all. It's not just the phone, it's at school too and seems to be partly to do with his personality. It's very difficult for me to entirely control the influences in his life as he is older. He plays out and sees his friends, sees them at school... As I said before his dad is very much like this and often speaks as though he is in some American teen drama. He even sometimes does dramatic pauses for effect. I do not want him to turn out that way.

These angst messages seem to have only happened in the past week or two on his phone. The drama at school has been going on for a long time and I am regularly updated on it.

He already thinks I am over the top for reading his messages, keeping his phone in child mode and not allowing any kind of social media account or whatsapp/Instagram/snap chat. The fact that many of his friends seem to have unsupervised access to the Internet makes things difficult. He considers me over the top rather than their parents as lax.

How would you discuss this without making things worse? What approach would you take? Do yo think it is worth me showing the messages to the school to highlight exactly the dynamic I am unhappy with and the content of some of the messages? I'm not sure he would ever forgive me for showing a teacher his texts. He is angry and embarrassed enough that I have to give them some detail on his CAMHS issues. I know that the messages are on my time and not the schools time but I can't control what happens there.

Again, remove the phone. Get counselling for him. School can do nothing about 5ge messages except advise that you remove the bloody phone!

Ffs, these children are in primary school. Why do they need phones!?! I also have a very dramatic and immature 11y.o. Y6-er who is very easily misled and teased by his more savvy fellow pupils---and for that reason alone, it'll be a very long time before he'll be given a phone. He's just not mature enough to handle it.

He has plenty of healthy things to fill his time. The amount of time he spends using the phone isn't the problem, it's mostly his drama with this particular girl which also happens at school and when he plays out. Not sure how to stop it other than banning all social interactions. Before he had a phone his friends would be filling him in on it all and playing it out on their phones. They do seem to rehash the drama a lot. So and so said this, so and so said that. It seems to be a very common topic of conversation at my doorstep!

I am now thinking of phone confiscation but I would appreciate advice on how to approach the discussion so he doesn't feel attacked and how to deal with the problem outside of text.

Don't make excuses, just remove the phone! If he needs one for walking to school or something, get him a non smart phone. I know my ds thought I was the most evil mum ever, all his friends had phones etc, but I don't give a shit! Your child is your responsibility. You will never regret taking the phone, and when your ds is older, he will probably see it as a good thing too - mine does.
Yes, the drama might be happening in the playground as well, but it's the absolute relentlessness of kids always being plugged in and contactable that causes so much damage. Especially if your ds already has mental health issues! Give him a break, he needs it.

Get counselling for him? What a silly thing to say.

I get that some people just love to prove that they are superior parents and their child would never have a phone and anybody who has finally allowed it under strict limits/time usage and with regular monitoring is basically abusing their child... But would anybody like to offer advice on how to talk about this with him? Confiscating the phone without discussing the conversations and angst isn't going to stop it happening. He mostly feels attacked and got at if I try to raise things with him and I don't want to push him away. He seems to view me as never being on his side and I think it's damaging our relationship. How would you go about it?

If you are going to take his phone, make sure he realises it's not a punishment, it's for his protection. There's lots of info out there on how damaging this stuff is for children's mental health, you could show him videos/articles on that? Try and get him to understand that you just want him to be happy, get him off the drama merry-go-round, and just generally make him feel loved and supported and sometimes mums have to make decisions for our kids that aren't popular but are for the best etc etc. The usual! That's what I did. I think I also chucked in a treat or a day out as well because I still felt bad.

He already thinks I am the worlds most evil and strict mom because of the limits and supervision. It drives a definite wedge between us because his dad wins favour by letting him do whatever he likes. He'll be home soon and I am bloody dreading the fallout. He holds me to ransom a bit with his reactions and blames me for causing a reaction by parenting him. CAMHS have offered no advice on the specific things I have asked so I never know whether I'm going about things the right way or making problems worse.

Camhs won't tell you how to make parenting decisions, and this is what you need to do.

If you don't want to take the phone away, you need to tolerate the behaviour and hope he has the sense to safeguard himself. If you take the phone away he will be angry. but this "holding you to ransom" thing is just bullshit. He's 11. He behaves like a teenager. You've got a long stretch ahead of you of him not liking how you handle things - but guess what?

HE DOESN'T HAVE TO LIKE IT.

His dad needs to be onside, so maybe talk to him first and insist he backs you up? If you take the phone, can you give him a bit more freedom in another area? Let him go to the cinema with his friends or later bedtimes or something?

Can you say to him, in an age apt way, what you've said to us??

This is awful and a really bad example of how to behave and interact.
Take away his phone and give him a Nokia when he is 12.
Limit phone use: it just attracts bullying.
Kids need a certain level of maturity. You need to protect him before you get blamed when he is older.

No, I'm afraid his dad definitely won't back me up. He is having legal action taken against him by CMS. He likes to prove what a good dad he is to my son by telling him he would beat up my husband if he does anything to him! Hopefully that gives you an idea of the kind of person I'm dealing with. One of the reasons I bought a phone is because his dad wanted to, but he wanted to get him a top of the range iPhone and wouldn't have put any of the checks and limits in place that I have. Removing the phone while his dad is paying for it and won't back me up would open a whole can of worms so I needed something purely under my control.

I know they won't tell me how to parent! I meant advice on how to manage his reactions. It sets off thoughts and behaviours. I can't always tell whether he is manipulating me or being serious and it makes it difficult to know how to respond. My gut instinct is firm and ignore or downplay things he says to try to get a response or to get me to back down but it would be bloody awful if did that and he was being serious. It's quite a fine like because getting all worked up can sort of set him off. I worry about him being in therapy ten years down the line talking about how I have caused him loads of problems with my parenting!

How is taking away his phone a magic solution? It’s not. 11 year olds have phones these days. This is about the dynamics within this group and if a group of dramatic kids find each other, this will happen. My friendship group was like this. A lot of the dramatics are pure acting and replicating situations from TV and books, without actually understanding or emotionally committing to the situation.

The best thing you can do is communicate and talk over the implications of what is being said. There’s no magic ‘remove the phone’ solution to this, though if he is getting over involved restricting the times he has access to it might help.

Just tried to raise it with him and it was bloody awful. He is very embarrassed. I think a lot of it is a joke (or he is claiming that it is a joke). They do seem to spend a lot of time 'tricking' people into agreeing to be boyfriend and girlfriend and think it's a hilarious and silly thing to do. I can remember that happening quite a lot when I was in high school and was an immature joke. I know for definite some of it is weird in jokes that I'm not getting. I have the phone for now because he knew I was going to look at his messages and he absolutely refused to speak to me or answer my questions and had a huge overreaction. I want to tell him he is not allowed to have a girlfriend but I don't see how it will change anything. They don't do anything different from friends for being bf/gf because they are so young so in just banning a silly label and not stopping the accompanying drama.

I feel the same way as you, chariots. I don't think the way this group of kids interact is going to change if he doesn't have a phone. I will be keeping hold of it for a while yet. I am concerned that his dad might buy him one if he tells him that I've removed it. That will be very difficult for me to control, especially if he keeps it at his house. His dad has made it clear that there are no time limits and has let him take it to bed with him. This phone is tied to my account so I can remotely block access to things. He was very proud when he came home and told me that he refused the offer to be sensible because he would be tempted to be on it all night and it would affect his sleep. Poor kid. It does add an unnecessary layer of complexity to the phone issue and parenting.

I don't understand why you would try to raise things with him. Just do it. He needs to be able to say to his friends "I can't reply on snapchat because my bitch mother has taken my phone". He needs you to be the bad guy. You can't leave this up to him, he doesn't have the necessary skills to deal with it, and it's unfair to his level of development to expect that simply because you find it uncomfortable when he's pissed off with you.

Don’t say you’re confiscating the phone. It doesn’t have to be yet another drama moment in drama land.

You sit down and discuss the messages. You point out the parts that are silly/dramatic/concerning and explain why and why you’re going to hang onto the phone until he’s a bit older and can handle things better.

You talk to the school about the playground stuff and ask the SEN team to increase their watch on the situation.

What colditz said.

If his dad buys him a phone, it's not ideal but he can only use it when he is with his dad/ at dads house.

My DD is allowed to do things I don't allow when with her dad. There is nothing I can do about that, but she accepts there are different rules. Not ideal but it is possible.

Just focus on the things you can do and don't worry about what his dad might do.

Remove the phone