Help!!! Lying 11 year old

[movingonishard]

Bit of background. DS (11) is bright and well behaved at school. Generally pretty good at home except for the lies.He stole from me and told lots of lies as a result about a year ago. Had some counselling from school and things seemed to be getting better.
The worrying thing he said today though, after discovering his latest lie, was that he says he feels no guilt at all when he lies. He says he feels nothing. He's unhappy when I find out but that's because I'm annoyed and he gets punished- tonight having to go to bed early and taken away his iPad.
I'm at a loss to know what to do now. Im feel such a failure and I'm so worried. Any comments / advice would be really appreciated. Thanks in advance :)

It's really good that your DS has a iPhone and that you approve all apps. I would try hard to not take it personally that he lies. My DD is 13 and she lies as well, she also lied when she was 11, and I find it so hard to not take it personally. But it's part of them growing up, that they don't want to include you in everything, their lying is them trying to get some privacy. My DDs dad (we recently separated) is very focused on catching DD lying, but I can see that it's making it worse, she's very good at covering her tracks, and he spend so much energy on catching her lying and then he overdoes the telling off and punishing.

As far as I can see, the lying becomes worse if DD has too much screen time, doesn't sleep enough and doesn't have enough outdoor time. But it's still little lies, not huge ones.

If I were you, I would try to put it in perspective. Is he otherwise happy and doing well? I think most kids that age lie, it's just that parents don't always know ;) They begin to develop one front to you, and then another personality with their peers. There's not much you can do about it. Focus on your good relationship to him and enjoy it. You say that recently it was just a silly lie, hang on to that.

Thanks again for all the replies. We've talked about it more and he says that the recent lie might have been because I've been stressed recently and I'd get annoyed with him. This of course doesn't explain all the other lies. I've reiterated that I'd like to be able to trust him, he says he wants to be trusted too. I explained I'll. e far less angry about whatever he's done wrong, if he's honest about it. We've talked about the effects of lying again too. I don't know what else I can do!

You are definitely not alone. My daughter is 11 and she lies, it really worries me. The latest is she has wee'd on her onesie and she said she didn't tell me as it was embarrassing and she doesn't know why she did it. I actually don't know if I believe her or if she's weed on it on purpose. At school and with other family members she is a dream but she is a horror for me and her dad. I am at my wits end with her!

Today I found out hed been deleting texts (again)he thought I'd be annoyed about. We have a rule that he does t delete texts. The ones he's deleted were about something I wouldn't even have been bothered about. I just don't know what to do to help him be more open and honest. I was quite calm with him and I've asked him if there's a reason for his behaviour and he says no and he feels he can talk to me; his behaviour says otherwise. Any thoughts or advice would be really appreciated:)

Your HT is right - you really have to worry when he’s an angel at home but a git at school (because then he doesn’t feel secure enough to show you his worst side but needs to get it out somewhere).
Best thing I ever read about fibbing was in a book called Nurtureshock and it more or less cured my dcs of it.

1. Kids want to please their parents (however much it sometimes seems they don’t)
2. When they do something they know their parent won’t like, they want to cover it up if they can, so they lie about it. Because
3. They very quickly learn that a lie has no direct consequence - I.e. whatever the lie, if they get found out, they still only get punished for the original offence, not the lie.

4.so, from their POV, there is no downside to telling a fib: if it succeeds (the lie is believed) they get away with the original offence; if they get caught out, they still only get whatever punishment the original offence would have incurred. So they may as well lie, and at least have a shot at not disappointing you. The book therefore recommends making it clear always that the biggest disappointment is the lie and the more severe consequence will always be for a lie, rather than anything they’ve actually done. It seriously works a treat. He doesn’t care about lying because he thinks you don’t care about it as much as what else he’s done wrong. Now when I suspect my kids are fibbing, I just say ‘oh, my heart is hurting a bit...’ (cos fibbing hurts my heart, of course!) and one of them (almost) always fesses up. Great book.

Thanks - however i have reiterated time after time that there’s a worse punishment if he lies than if he’s honest about whatever he’s done wrong. I don’t know what else to do...

What were the texts about?
I think you should worry more about the root of the problem than about his not obeying arbitrary rules you made up for him.

The texts were just about something trivial he’d agreed with a friend - but he thought I wouldn’t like it. I have and am trying to get to the bottom of the reason but I’m getting nowhere...

So work from there. What did he agree to? Why was he afraid to tell you? How can you make sure he feels confident to come to you next time, even if he does something wrong?
If you keep punishing him it kind of reinforces his behaviour, that he has to hide.
This is the conversation I would have:
Me: Son, I want to make sure you are using your phone properly, so once a week I will go through your text messages. So what day do you prefer?
Son: eyeroll Fine. Sundays. (At least this is what my son would do)
Me: I noticed you deleted some messages, what were they about?
Son: I told Timmy I will lend him my iPad but I know you wouldn’t approve.
Me: Oh, you can invite him over tomorrow so he can play with it at our house. What do you think?

Thanks for your reply. We’ve had so many similar conversations and I’ve asked him if there’s anything I can don’t I make him more willing to talk to me about things ; he says there isn’t . It’s been going on for 2 years now and even had counselling after the stealing incident last year. I just don’t know what else to do.. In most ways he’s so well behaved and lovely.

Stop making a big deal about lying and focus on the issues that cause it.
Stop punishing him.

I'm wondering if he's lying so that he's presenting himself (to you) as perfect? This may be due to your and his dad's break up, that you broke up with dad, and that you may leave him too if he isn't "perfect". And yet at the same time he's almost sabotaging it by lying. Perhaps he's testing your love in some way? I'd also want to know if he's seeing his dad, what dad is saying about you. Is he saying negative stuff about you to DS?

When talking about lying, do you separate the behaviour from him as a person? So, I love you DC and always will, but I don't love some of the behaviour, in particular the lying. But I will always love you, because the lying isn't who you are.