11year old daughter going off the rails. Help.

[jude3184]

My daughter is going off the rails and seems to be on a path of self destruction. I am at my wits end with what to do. I am a mother of 2 daughters, my youngest being 7. Earlier this year I found out that my eldest had been telling lies. She had told all of her friends that her dad didn't buy her any Easter eggs for Easter (which was a lie). I confronted her about it and explained that it was wrong to lie and she said that she didn't know why she did it. Then a while after I found out that she had been bullying children at school. I drove her to the children's houses to apologise. It seemed to work for a while. I then found out she was doing it again (to a poor girl who doesn't have the best life anyway). This is something I absolutely will not tolerate so as a shock tactic I took her to the police station so they could explain to her that with actions comes consequences. She left the police station in tears. For about 3 months she was back to the amazing daughter that I knew I had the whole time. Then I had the shock of the century. I found out that her and a friend had been stealing from a local shop. I found out when I found the goods in her bedroom. I confronted her and her friend and told them how disappointed I was. I told the other girls mother and said I wanted them to take everything back and apologise. The mother refused as it was from the shop she works in and was embarrassed. I wasn't about to let my daughter take the blame by herself so I punished her by grounding her and taking away her phone and increased her chores. She was told she wasn't allowed in any shops unless I was with her. She seemed to understand what she had done was wrong. Then this Friday just past I had a phone call. It was from a man who explained that he had just caught her and the same friend in his shop stealing again. He said he checked back over his cctv and over the last 2 weeks they had stole around £20 worth of stock each. I obviously told him I was very sorry, paid the money he was owed and brought her home where I have now told her she isn't to associate with this girl as they cannot be trusted. I also messaged the girls mum and told her that I would be contacting the police myself. She came to my door and told me I had no right. I explained that I had every right and I was doing my best as her mother to teach my daughter right from wrong and that both of them were to blame so they should both be punished. I am waiting for the police to call me back to come out and speak to her. This past few days she is just acting like nothing has happened and is as mouthy and demanding as ever. She is vile to my youngest daughter (who is very sweet natured and kind, they are polar opposites). She shouts when something doesn't go her way, she cries at the drop of a hat. I am at my wits end. The only thing that seems to effect her is the threat of moving out of our local area and changing her schools to remove her from the situation as punishment don't seem to be working. It seems drastic but if that's what it takes for her to know I mean business then I will do it. I just wondered if anyone has any ideas or anything with dealing with a child that seems to set on ruining her own life??? She's only 11, I know that but people that tell me 'kids will be kids'...I was a kid once, I didn't bully people or steal!! I'm just so low right now and seriously disappointed ????

I think you sound like a very loving mum and its hard when their dad is not acting right. I would look for someone at her new school to talk to about this and see if there is some support available from there.

Also it's a great idea to give her more responsibility around the home, like helping make tea and look at some sort of volunteer work as a way of being involved in the community, helping others.

I just think if she does, for example, football or netball after school then it gives you a bit of time to get to collect her after her sister?

Also rules out the chance of her going off shoplifting. You really don't want her getting a reputation for shoplifting, or you'll find the nicer children will start to avoid her and she'll begin to have friendship issues.

That's what I'm scared of. Her having no friends. I've explained to her that something like this will have an effect on everything. I just hope she starts realising it's not ok x

Her father sounds awful - I would investigate how much you need legally to make her go. He sounds abusive to her.
Her behaviour may well be a cry for help.
I would talk to the school and see if the pastoral staff can help (and also get a heads up on her behaviour in school).

What does she enjoy? What is she interested in? Are there any suitable clubs?

She's only just started the school the last 3 weeks so she is just getting a feel for how things go up there and what's going on.

Her dad is a complete * and he does what he wants. I can totally understand why she doesn't want to visit, I wouldn't either. He's very much of the opinion that if he doesn't see them he won't pay for them. I have to be honest when I say that doesn't actually bother me as much as it should. Atleast if he doesnt see them he can't make them feel bad about themselves x

Have you a contact order in place?
In my experience (my dd is 12, her father sounds about the same as your ex), you have to encourage contact but not enforce it if it will be detrimental to the emotional well being of the child.

It does sound like she's acting out because of being pushed away by her father. Obviously you can't let shoplifting etc go unpunished, I think you're right with that one but there are larger issues at hand. Speak with student support at school and ask for help, she probably needs counselling or help to manage the anger she quite rightly feels.
Be blunt with your ex, perhaps get his family on board if they are likely to be open and helpful. His actions are damaging your child! Explain, in writing, that if he doesn't step up and actually help you parent these children you cannot force your daughter to visit. Always in writing and be direct but professional (my dh proof reads my emails to help take out the emotive stuff), then if it goes to court you have shown you've tried your utmost to get him to engage.

Your poor girl. Sit down, when she's calm, and talk over with her acceptable boundaries. Ask her what that means for her and if possible to write them down so you can all sign and agree upon them. Then just carry on with the love and cuddles.

Jude...

This behaviour to my mind is a call for help, for attention. Given your clearly very good parenting skills and I think you have done an excellent job in dealing with this all so robustly, I admire your energy especially as you are on your own.

Looking carefully at her relationship with her father would be a good starting point. As I can't see that anything in your home or life with her that could be triggering these problems. IF she is feeling rejected by him, unwelcome at her visits and not loved by him this alone could be sparking some serious anger and unhappiness. Given that he is happy to hurt her by excluding her from this wedding you have to wonder what else is going on that is hurting her. Is she feeling comfortable at their house? Is he being horrible to her? I would start with that situation OP, because it sounds like a long way from the loving secure relationship it should be.

If it were my dd (ours dds are the same age) I would completely restrict all freedom too, no shops, no going out with friends. I think earning back your trust is key. My dd does not have anywhere near as much freedom as yours, so it is easier to keep track of what she is doing. A few lies here or there are pretty standard.

Have you got a lovely granny or grandma that can talk to her? Or an aunt? Sometimes a neutral but third loved person can work wonders in prising out the real issues.

I think you are doing a great job under lots of pressure.

Last night I contacted my cousin who works at teens in crisis and she is going to come and speak to her and take her out for lunch and see if she can get any answers as to why she feels like she does. I said I can't go on crying myself to sleep because I don't know what to do.

Thank you so much for your kind words. I do my best and it's a bloody struggle at times but it's what us mums have to do xx

Your DD is very lucky, at least she has one great parent - YOU

Thank you so much I just want to do what's best for my children and I want my happy baby back xx

Blimey! I have a 11 year old DS and I would go postal if he did anything like that. you are doing the right thing by making her apologise to those she has wronged and also getting the police to speak to her as well.
Re the £20 worth of goods - I would've used her pocket money to pay for that, and grounded her to boot. Maybe even met her from school if possible (I am aware that these things aren't always possible though) so she doesnt' go via the shop.
Once all that was sorted out, I would spend some more time with her (maybe 1-2-1 - my two love spending time with me on their own so they don't have to vie for attention) and find out why she is acting like that. I don't think it's normal for an 11 year old to behave in these ways. Often bullies do so as they are unhappy with some aspect of their lives and it makes them feel better/superior. Maybe not enough attention at home, or another child is bullying them (maybe her so-called friend?). Think you need to have a good chat to her though and stop it now, before teenage life begins. Good luck with it all.

the shop owner will tell her what he has on ctv and that he can call the police and have her charged. That might be a good kick in the pants for her to realise that shop lifting is dangerous. Your dd is entering the teenage stormy waters. Great idea to give her individual time with you. Sadly we seem to want more what we cannot have. I found it hard to walk a middle line so i didn't lie on my ex's behalf and not wanting my children to be hurt. I used to say 'He loves you as much as he is able to. ' Keep on doing what you're doing , op. You have the right instincts.

It's tricky for me as I don't want to go too hard on a girl that's quite clearly unhappy. I just want her to realise it's not an acceptable way to behave.

She's never mentioned being picked on herself, she seems far too hard faced to tolerate it. I just don't know. I hope that this talk with my cousin who's a councillor will help xx

In my experience - those who seem hardest on the outside are often very vulnerable inside.

But parents can find it hard to break through the shell. I hope your cousin can help.

Finally a mom that accepts her DD was a bully (you are a rare breed) Well done for the apology. As for punishments ... do you ask her what it should be? Its amazing that they do know and probably more harsh than youd think of. (So in comparison they get of lightly) re the trip .. hope you learnt the half cost of uniform/trip from now on.... XH is being an arse. Contact school see if theres a pupil fund/charity
I rarely punish D straight way ... i let them stew until ive calmed down.
Have you talked about reputation? Easy earnt difficult to shake?

Jude, just wanted to say that I think you sound like an amazing mum. I also think that it's as clear as day where your daughter's problems are stemming from - her father! He sounds emotionally abusive. The clothes sizes, saying she's too naughty to see, the wedding issue - come on! What child wouldn't act out! His behaviour is disgusting. .

Some good advice here, but I think the posts just focusing on your parenting are a little misdirected! You're trying to make up for so much. I think you need to start with looking carefully at what time she spends with dad. You take control, and make it very clear & consistent how much she see him - maybe not seeing him much at all will be no loss. Don't let him cancel on her, don't spring visits on her etc

I don't know what to say about the police...I think maybe it's a little heavy handed. She's only 11. But I appreciate that you want to teach her right from wrong, and I respect the efforts you made wrt the bullying.

Stay strong

One thing that has stood out to me, OP, is that you say your ex has told your DD that he doesn't want to see her because she is too naughty/whatever. Do you think this is maybe her seeing that she can't be good enough for him as she will often be told she isn't good enough, but she can be so bad that she really is the naughty he says she is? Her way of clumsily regaining control over the relationship that she has no say in? I'm not being very articulate, but she's been labelled as naughty by your ex so she's acting that out?

Her dad is an ass and I won't let her go without this trip because he thinks he can control her using it as leverage. Even if I have to go without myself she isn't missing a school trip. If she having a tough time at school I won't let her become a target by her being the Only one not going. A school trip is a school trip. It's educational so it's not something to be taken away. I won't find it easy affording it but where your kids are concerned there's always a way to wangle it. And I will. Then she will have nothing to thank him for. He's a vile specimen. This whole wedding saga breaks my heart. I just cannot believe he can brush it off and be so blasé about it all. Like it's not a big deal. He doesn't get that it will alienate her further! I'm just glad she has me x

That sounds like what it possible could be swearygodmother. Deffo. If she is what he says she is then she is living up to something. Makes perfect sense xx

On the wedding note, why do you have to tell them? Its his news, he should do it.

I don't have to tell them I just feel like at least I can say it in a way that won't hurt their feelings so much. He will be cold about it x

I agree with Sakura get the contact with Dad reduced and make sure if she does see him it is consistent and positive.

I think if you talk to the school and get whatever support they can offer, they may also help you with paying for the trip, even if just allowing you to pay in instalments.

The trip is on 6th October so has to be paid by this week. I'll sort something, even if I have to lend the money from my mum. I will sort it because I refuse to let my daughter down like he has. That's why I want to get to the bottom of why she is like she is. I felt like I was the failure but maybe I should stop blaming myself x

bet the school will give you some leeway if you explain the sit- also they need to be aware of the difficulties your dd is experiencing so they can take that into account if they have to deal with behavior. Counselling would also be good. In fact if you you start off with the counselling request , they will def be more open to giving leeway on all accounts.

Jude does dd even want to see her Dad?

I think this one question might tell you all you need you need to know.

I would be cutting or stopping contact until my dd was completely sorted and in a good place. The wedding could trigger a more unpleasant reaction.

I hate to say it, but I am worried things will become even worse when she finds out she is excluded from this. I think you need to do everything possible to protect her from this pain. Making it your ex dp/dh job will not make it less painful for your dd. Her genuinely not knowing anything much about it, will help. It must come across as completely irrelevant, a non issue to both her life and yours.

I am shocked you have been put in this truly awful situation, but stopping contact for a few months on the grounds of getting her in a good place, all in writing with good reasons, be reasonable at all times, will help I am sure of it.

If your ex truly cared and loved this little girl there is NO way on god's earth he would put her through this wedding situation. His feelings now become completley null and void. Find a way to manage without his financial input and remember you are a brilliant mother in a very difficult place, and we are all behind you.