DD, 10, aware she is 'fat' - angry and eating even more

[FelicityWits]

DD has always been chunky - measured overweight on the child BMI charts since forever.

In the early days, she spent 2 days with my parents and 3 days with her father - all of whom gave her shit to eat in vast quantities. We have a healthy eating philosphy at home (and now she's here more), but she never seems to get full.

She will always go for simple carbs. I don't want to go on about it all and give her a complex - she is well, well aware of nutritional values, portion sizes etc.

(my profession includes that sort of thing)

So when she's here, she's fed well and nutritiously and we've encouraged her to take up various activities. Her fitness has improved massively.

Looking at her objectively, her arms and legs are slender but she has a very big tummy. She's hitting puberty physically but not emotionally - no interest in boys (or girls!), nor periods but is developing hairy armpits and pubic area.

She's referring to herself as fat a lot lately, especially in relation to other girls who are string-beany. However she is angry about this, and seems to eat more/make food choices which aren't the best, as it is 'hopeless' and 'my body just wants to be fat'.

i've told her she's perfect how she is and that her body is getting ready for puberty, and she just gets angrier and angrier. DH will talk about food choices and more excercise and she gets furious.

Anyone else been through this? My main priority is her not getting massive issues about her size. My life was blighted by thinking I was fat and I was put on slimfast by my mother, which led to binge-eating in secret and becoming obese and hating myself. I still do at a size 12. Do not want that for DD :(

Hi OP sorry your DD is going through this. My DD9 is similar to yours from your description. Definitely overweight and getting more obvious as she gets older. Started about age 6.
She describes herself as fat, grabs her tummy and rolls it around, is ashamed of her little boobs/ fat pads on her chest and has asked for crop tops to wear on PE days.
Doesn't help that her twin DB and DD12 are skinny!
It is horrible to see the beginnings of the 'self hating' that messes up so many girls.
BUT DD is otherwise very cheerful, bright, popular, well balanced and thinks she's great. She's possibly a bit too cocky! It doesn't have to be that your DD has major emotional problems.

Do you have others? I have a big family & have noticed that DD9 seems to be taking after two of her cousins body wise, they went through this from about 7-12 yrs but are a healthy weight now and both very tall. DH and I are big (he is 6'4") so it might be a pre- growth spurt thing?
Sounds like you're already doing all the right things. I wish you luck.

Sorry if this is a bit off the wall, but like you I have relations who I had to use for childcare (and have a right to spend time with dc) who equate vast quanties of shit food with showing the dc they love them...
That's ok for ds who is a natural string bean, but dd was on the same road as your dd.
I couldn't persuade them (hard when they're not blood relatives I think), so I very much exaggerated the school's concern with dd's weight- I think they thought social workers were on the doorstep. It solved the problem, they don't like it and make the wrong choices sometimes, but on the whole they have calmed down.
I'm not saying what i did was morally right, but as I say it worked and now everyone keeps commenting on how dd has stretched out.

FelicityWits I know your daughter's issue is being overweight and you're taking steps to deal with not allowing her to become obese or unhealthy.

As an aside, please don't refer to a different body type as "string bean". I was a "string bean" and was ridiculed, insulted, called horrible names - twig, stick insect, string of piss - because I was naturally skinny and never put weight on. (Only happened when I hit 40).

I don't mean to hijack your thread or give you grief, but just wanted you to be aware that all different body types have issues and calling slim people "stringbeans" is as offensive to me as it would be to you to have people call your daughter names.

You say she understands nutrition etc but don't we all and don't we all stuff up too? Must be so much harder for kids.

From what you say, it sounds as though her problem is not through lack of knowledge about nutrition and exercise, but rather it is emotionally-driven.

So that's where the attention is needed.

You can't afford counselling but maybe there are some good books on emotional intelligence that could help you help your daughter? Confidence and self esteem are key to pretty much everything.

I always remember a Dr Phil episode about a mum and her overweight daughter and he told the mum, "Forget the weight. Build her confidence and the rest will follow." For some reason it has stuck in my mind!

She's lucky to have such a caring mum and I am sure that with time, patience and some help from books/counsellors etc that she will gain confidence and shed some self loathing.

All the best

Two things.
Take her out running
Have NOTHING but healthy food in the house.

What sort of food to you have in the house? I would start to look at the whole family's eating habits and, as Posie says, do running together. It does sound like she has other issues and the eating is a symptom.

Bit scared to come back to this as some of the comments are a bit but there's a lot of very good and thoughtful advice which I am very grateful for!

Celia I was referring to, specifically, her father rather than to all slender people. I apologise if you were disturbed by my use of the term 'stringbean'. I refer to myself as a butternut squash. I will try not to use 'stringbean' on MN in future.

Her father feeds her lots of processed food because it is 'easy'. He takes her to KFC and McDonalds as 'treats'. I have spoken to him at length and he gets angry and defensive and more likely to buy her multipacks of crisps or extremely sugary cereals or cakes, which is unproductive.

I don't think she has attatchment issues however there MUST be an emotional component, as many people have suggested. I am sure that food is used to show love at her father's and was at my parents. Also, there has been some upheaval at her father's house. Perhaps she was using food to self-soothe.

We spoke a bit about it this morning and I gather from what she said that she'll 'eat healthily' or request healthy food (an example was asking her father for a salad at mcdonalds), and then be frustrated when the results are not immediate. It must also be hard when her schoolfriends eat loads and remain very slender.

She has two brothers who are younger (5 and 4); DS1 seems to follow his father (DH), whereas DS2 is more stocky.

She does have extreme moods, which may be related to puberty. I'm sure it all reinforces itself.

At home we do 'vast quantities of salad' - she loves salad (and makes a mean vinaigrette), and we have that as a 'starter' before whatever is for dinner, or on the side otherwise. However as a volume eater she will stuff herself with whatever's available - at home that's healthy but elsewhere, not.

I'll have a look for books on emotional issues pitched at her age group.

I think some of her classmates (boys usually), have started making comments about her size yes. It's ridiculous as she just has a big tummy. But they are starting to notice physical differences.

She reacted with utter horror to the idea of going running! She already does a lot of extra-curricular activity (karate three times a week with DH, football club and swimming), plus she enjoys the wii fit. It's a struggle to get her father to take her to her karate club on his weekends but as she gets older it's easier. I'll think about other stuff she might enjoy.

rainbow we only have healthy food in the house. Part of my profession involves nutrition and DH is a sportsman. Snacks are seeds, fruit, veg. All three DCs eat very healthily. There are no crisps, sweets or chocolates in the house.

FW I have this problem every now and then too. My DD eats all the right stuff (except sweets!) but her portion control is awful - she eats more than I do at a sitting and no matter how full she is, if something comes along that looks delicious, she will want some even though she is full. That is emotional eating isn't it?

I also get the "it's not fair my friends can eat all this and not get fat" but tbh, if you analyse what her friends are eating, they are eating much less than her. It is difficult to know whether to say that frankly in case you sound like you're accusing her of being greedy, or to just sympathise.

The most striking thing about your DD is her anger about her body letting her down and punishing it. That is very difficult, I think all you can do on that one is keep emphasising how great she is and how her body is great too and deserves the best and to be treated with kindness and respect. That includes not over-burdening it with food it doesn't need and appreciating its power, strength and speed, which the sports she's doing will help her do.

What I have also done in the last few months, was simply not send her to her grandmother, where she is over-fed and encouraged to eat ridiculous amounts of food - good food, but too bloody much of it. Would that be a possibility for you FW? Is there any holiday club etc. that you can send her to when you work, instead of to her GP's? I was also very frank with my mother about it: "I don't want to send her to your's because last time I did, she put about four or five pounds on in 4 days". Funnily enough, my mother has been much less incontinent about the amount of food she serves her now. Is that an option for you?

Felicity, what would have helped you when your food/body issues were beginning?

My sister had a similar body shape when she was 10/11, but as she got older she became very slender, and still is at 31.

A big tummy is fat though, isn't it. There's no reason for children to have a 'big tummy' and it can onl;y mean too many calories.

Basil your first paragraph could be about my DD! And probably the second one too. Certainly my DD eats a lot faster than her peers.

She sees a lot less of my parents now. Unfortunately trying to discuss my concerns with them led to my mother purposefully undermining it - she started buying 'diet' products like low-fat chocolate mousse and saying "only ninety calories!", which is the opposite of what I'm trying to do with DD and horrified me. I read my mother the riot act and now try to arrange things so DD isn't there without me anymore. But she spent two days a week with them between the ages of 2 and 6 and a lot of habits got ingrained. However because of our work patterns there sometimes are times when I need my parents - to collect the DCs from school and have them overnight because I'm working very late for example. I try to avoid those times involving food if possible.

Dione, what I do with DD is what I think is 'right' and would've helped me. Healthy eating, knowledge of nutrition, body-positive attitude from her mum and lots of activity. We've spoken about puberty and hormones and even about the hunter-gatherers! What my mother did was put me on slimfast and tell me I was disgusting.

Spreading thankyou - my gut feeling is that if DD's weight was steady for a while, she'd grow (and hit puberty), and even out as it were. I so don't want her to develop body hatred and for food to have a moral value to her.

Sorry, Felicity, I was being a bit of a snarky arse earlier. I just wanted to make the point that being the "ideal" weight and using derogatory terms for anyone's shape is adding to the body image problem of a lot of children.

The problem I think is that you are unsupported by your family so it's an uphill battle.

Portion control, healthy eating and exercise are sensible choices. As long as she's healthy and not being bullied, try not to obsess about it (difficult I know).

My dd overeats and eats quickly. I've seen her swallow food without chewing, bolting it down as though there's a famine. Some people don't have the message from the brain that they're full so keep on eating. Some need to wait 20 minutes after eating a meal before their body realises they're full. Also my dd mistakes thirst for hunger. Milkshakes, smoothies and squash made with fizzy water could help fill her up before a meal.

Felicity I think many of us have emotional issues with food. I mean, who wants to be fat? Yet something like 1 in 5 are obese.

My sister went through this with her daughter, now 18. At 9 she had a personal trainer which sounds crazy but my neice thought he was "so cool" and he was v. encouraging. My neice has her dad's chunky build and frankly, as much as I adore my sister, I can't help but feel she contributed to my neice's issues with food - she so wanted her to be slim and it's just not her natural build. My sister is very kind and smart but as a slim person I don't think she understands what it is like to be a bigger body type.

My neice is 18, still chunky, very fit & active, very happy - studying, working, self-supporting. I think she is fabulous.

Not that that's any help to you!

You are helping your daughter wonderfully by modelling healthy eating and an active lifestyle.

To an extent you may have to let go, that is, accept she will slip up with her choices and eat crap when she goes to her dad's.

Knowing you love and accept her no matter what will be working wonders for her self esteem and that is the greatest gift she can have. Just keep at it x

I've posted about dd's weight here on mumsnet. She's 12 and overweight. I know she's overweight because I can see it - she is carrying too much weight around her middle, and her bmi is too high. She's not especially muscular and doesn't have a big frame.

I don't know what to suggest OP, but I feel for you. My dd eats out of boredom, and as part of her general rebellion against me and DH.

I think dd eats a lot because she's bored, because she likes food, and frankly - because she's greedy. I don't agree that all overeating is emotional. I think sometimes a child recognises that they don't need more food but is enjoying the taste and eats more. They learn to ignore that uncomfortably full feeling, and I think with major overeating they actually stretch their stomachs to the point that it becomes harder in future to feel full.

Children shouldn't be carrying a lot of weight around their middle. It was very rare to see this when I was a child - maybe one or two overweight children in every school. Now there are two or three in every class (depending on how posh your children are - in private schools children tend to be much, much thinner).

Personally I'm at the end of my tether with dd over other things: she's rude, unhelpful, completely uncooperative, manipulative and lazy, so that her eating habits are now the least of my worries. I envy you OP that your dd is OK in other ways. Wish I could say the same for mine.

I'm choosing to step back from this issue at home now. I cook the meals - healthy ones - I serve them. I don't keep crap in the house. I don't give dd money for snacks. If she still eats more than she should there's sod all I can do about it.

I'm sorry to say that this is going to continue to be an increasingly worrying problem for modern parents. We live in an obesogenic society and more and more children are going to grow up overweight and become fat adults. It's very sad and very troubling.

Shag. What help are you getting to deal with your dd? Does she have any role models or mentors outside the family, or interests?

Yes she has role models. Her cousins, (who are close in age) are good friends. They are high achievers and nice kids with lots of hobbies including sport. Her best friend has a black belt in Taikwondo. She has lots of friends and loads of close family living near by. She's in top sets for everything at school without doing a stroke of work. But then it's a school with a very deprived intake and very few middle-class kids from professional families. If she was at a school with a more middle-class intake I doubt she'd be in top sets as she's not a genius, and she certainly doesn't do any work.

DD hasn't got loads of problems. She's just lazy and greedy.

I know it's frowned on to talk about your children like that but I know dd well, and she's really, really not a tormented pre-teen. If I let her do whatever she wanted she'd be happy as a sandboy day and night. The only time she's unhappy is when DH and I are asking her to do something she doesn't want to do (like homework, or helping around the house).

Ah. She's a normal teen!

When she eats meals does she sit at the table and eat? I've read that if you're watching tv, etc at the same time as eating you don't notice your body saying that you're full.

I started piling on the weight after my parents divorced when I was ten. After marrying somebody who was submissive to her (her being 32 ans him being 22) my mother became very nasty and I was called fat, lazy, careless right up until last year (I am now eighteen). Her tough love tactic didn't work, my FB pictures tell a story of somebody whose weight flucuated badly and I literally cannot look at them without crying. I am now down to a normal size (so everyone tells me) but I cannot change the feeling of being in a fat suit and just wanting to rip off my fat.

My mother knew I was overweight and she dealt with it in the wrong way, i just wanted to eat more to get her more pissed off at me. You need to sit your child down and talk to her about it in a sensitive way but still firm. If I could go back to being ten, but know what I know I would lose it all then because it's easier. Don't leave it till later. At 9st7 I feel like a heffer. For the sake of your daughter sort it out now.