What can a pre-school teach?

[putmeashape]

We are having problems at our pre school with what parents seem to think should be covered and what the staff say they can do. What are they allowed to teach? We have been told they cannot even have colouring sheets because it stresses the kids out if they cannot stay within the lines. This sounds ridiculous to me, but is it true? What level of structure do the other pre schools have?

I don't think anyone is looking for a fight. Are they?!?

You asked what they're allowed to teach. Several people told you they have to teach the EYFS. If you ask a question and people answer it, it's a bit much to call them 'know-it-alls' and accuse them of spoiling for a fight.

If you don't want to hear an answer, don't ask a question.

If you're on the preschool committee, you're the employers of the staff and it's your business to know what they have to teach.

"The point, obviously, is that they don't share with the committee and/or (it seems) just can't be bothered to tell the truth as that is too much effort."

Perhaps they are struggling to understand it themselves. It is a complete shift in focus. To be fair, you have read the paperwork and don't understand it. They will be used to doing things very differently.

Learning to work with preschoolers is all on the job training, NVQ qualification. They won't have had masses of 'teaching' for it.

Actually although EYFS is new it is only a combination of the previous documents Birth to Three Matters, The Curriculum Guidance for the Foundation Stage and parts of the National Standards for Daycare in one document. There aren't any huge changes in what can be taught now to what could be taught pre EYFS.

As to colouring sheets - basically some OFSTED teams would criticise others wouldn't be bothered. There is nothing to say you can't use them and nothing to say you should - the educational value is limited however.

Children in reception classes will still be learning to read and write just as they did pre EYFS.

Set topics - not really in keeping with EYFS as we are expected to be more flexible and work with the children's interests - some OFSTED teams would question working this way.

I have another child and am trying to decide if I should look elsewhere. I am on the committee, at the moment as we are not in the good books with the practitioners for actually asking what people thought about the preschool and their not being able to take any criticism. I am not going to think about it anymore now. Will just see what happens in September. I do hate politics!

I am a CM and I have to operate within EYFS. I don't do things because OFSTED tell me to! I justify to OFSTED what I do and why I do it. We have some structured play and some free play, while listening to the children's own ideas all the time. They can choose between colouring in and blank paper and pencils/crayons/felt pens/paint/etc. The children are encouraged to look at numbers and letters, but are not actively 'taught' until they take the lead.

I think it is a bizarre habit to divide a child's experience into:

a)reading, writing and sums= educational

and

b) everything else= not educational so therefore a waste of time

drawing your own magic world is educational: it is art and literacy and drama all in one (and you learn far more from this than from doing colouring sheets)

planting a seed is educational: it is science

dressing up with a couple of friends is educational, if you make up the play yourself it is doubly educational: 10 years later, you'll be paying good money to have anyone encourage your child to do these things, at this wonderful age you just have to leave them to it

carpet time is educational: you are learning about social rules and group dynamics

Colouring shets are not good for under fives.
It's beter to give them plain paer to draw,scribble.colour on etc.
The nursery where I have been working at recently have all sorts of activities laid out in the pre-school room. The children choose what they want to do but the staff make sure thre are not to many children at each activity and also do some one to one or small group work with the children.

I see I have more anti-colouring in groupies
as cory says everything a child does is educational
a child doesn't differentiate between 'education' and everything else
a child learns and develops throught what it sees, hears, touches and does
they are in an 'active learning' phase
pre-school is not about being taught, it is about learning
I love the freedom that the EYFS gives me in my job in my pre-school.
The children benefit so much from having more control over what they do.
They learn to write their names, but I don't actively 'teach' them. They are like sponges, they just soak it up.
It is organised chaos

putmeashape, do your preschool send out an annual questionnaire ot parents?

Thsi si one way to survey views with less bad feeling, as they are annonymous.

actually, that's a really good idea littlerach. We send out a feedback form at the end of each term. It does, admittedly, tend to be the same parents who return it each time, but at least it's giving people a mechanism to say what they think.

Interesting thread and interesting topic.
I have a pre-schooler too (well 2 actually if I count the baby!) but we are in Japan so my 4 year old dd attends her pre-school / nursery / day care (call it what you will - it's kind of the same word in Japanese) all day (I work part-time).
Her particular class of mixed 4 and 5 year olds do pretty much the same kind of activities as mentioned on here:
Science projects like growing and tending vegetables which are then eaten for lunch:
Group activities with the main teacher which include talking about the day, date, whose birthday it is, how many cups they need for their respective tables to have a drink etc:
Sports activities in the gym - running/hopping/skipping/walking like a duck etc - to encourage team work and basic friendly competition, as well as improving coordination:

And lots more things.
Interestingly (though I never thought about it upto now!), they do not have colouring in papers available!

One thing that the staff did say to us when we enrolled our dd was that the policy of the nursery is to help form rounded considerate and helpful individuals. So a stress on thinking of others, being polite to people, learning the "rules' if you like.

Sorry for the long post and I realise it will be of no help to the OP who wanted to know what Ofsted guidelines are, but it shows that (an)other country at least is adopting the same approach with their pre-schoolers.

This is an interesting thread and one I wish I had read before my child started pre-school earlier this year. Like others, I was confused by the lack of more formal education - where were the numbers and the letters? Why were they not doing more counting and shapes etc? It all looked like chaos and I didn't think she was learning anything.

Six months on and she is definitely a far happier, more confident and sociable child. She is learning to read and write (she is coming up to 4 in September) but is doing it all at home with me. (I am not pushing her, she wants to do it).

What I think this proves is not that there is necessarily a problem with the system but there is a problem with teaching PARENTS about it.

We are moving overseas this summer and both my dd's will be starting pre-school at a Montessori school (Leningrad, I suspect this is what you were talking about). Having visited the school and read the literature, I have a feeling this is what our new system is based on as I can't see much difference between what they will be doing there and what dd1 has been doing here. Except, as we'll be in a hot country, there is more emphasis on swimming, tennis and other outdoor activities!

claraquack, the EYFS does have elements of Montessori in it but there are big differences too.
The EYFS takes a bit of best practice from lots of different sources, such as Te Whariki, from New Zealand, the teachings of Froebel, Montessori, High Scope, Reggio Emillio and margaret Mcmillan, are all in there too.

Wow, um well EYFS is a tad confusing but things havent changed that much. Its the planning that makes it work.
Where I work, we have development matters folders for each child, all our obs, photo of that individual child etc goes in there for the parents to keep at the end of pre school, we do termly reports for parents and keep copies ready to send over to the primary school when the child leaves us. Ofsted like to see child led activities but this does not mean there isnt allowed to be adult led activities, they like both going from my experience with Ofsted.
Children learn from playing, so yes they do learn a awful lot from going to pre school, socialising for one, and they learn to count from singing counting songs, playing games such as number lotto, or the maths set, I was pretty shocked that I didnt see anyone comment this...children learn through play and they learn so much through pre school.
We do a reading scheme, picture books first such as the great Kipper and Floppy books, we dont push the children but some are ready for this especially when they are about to go to school.
We work very hard at my pre school, there is alot of paperwork involved now and it can be stressful, Ofsted do say pre schools shouldnt have work sheets as its setting children up for failure.....i think depends on each child.

Shame u didnt get good feedback from the parents, sometimes parents dont see what goes on behind the scenes, the hardwork that goes into a pre school.

x

Id like to apologise as after I submitted my comment others had beat me to it and did actually comment on children learning through play.

x

Putmeashape - our nursery teaches letters, numbers and reading with phonics to the 4-5 yr olds. I am happy with that as dc is nearly five and bored rigid painting and doing papier mache. Also, the (staff/kids) ratios are better to start 'teaching' than in primary school. Lots of free play is fine when kids are v v young, but at 4.5 on, I think many little brains are up for a bit more challenge (hence all the 'why' questions). I'd like a bit of science chucked in - easy stuff, like capacity, but things that make the brain tick over.

We did put out a questionaire that only resulted in sulking staff who have threatened to now quit at any suggestion that they could ever change anything.

Well thats just silly, the staff sulking? Thats crazy, I can understand if parents had said something that was completely rubbish for example if they had suggested that staff werent doing something that they clearly do, but whats the point of putting a questionaire out for parents and then sulk if their opinions upset staff. It should encourage change or help staff see where they could be going wrong, if their good feedback then lovely.

Hope that makes sense, I tend to ramble on lol.

K.x