Anyone else's child started pre-school still in nappies? What does your pre-school do?

[Miaou]

Ds1 is 3 (just) and has just started nursery (by which I mean the 2.5 hour daily session provided as of right to all 3 and 4 year olds in Scotland, I know we all call it different things!). There are two members of staff there and it is obviously impossible for them to change him. Today was his second session and (as pre-arranged) I had a phonecall asking me to come and change him as he had pooed.

I am expecting a "chat" with the nursery teachers later this week as we work out what to do for the best. There are good facilities on the premises to change him (put in for a child with CP who is still at the school, but she has a keyworker dedicated to her to deal with that). This is the first time the nursery has taken 3 year olds and is not a problem that has arisen before (and as far as I can tell, he is the only one still in nappies!).

He has no SN so I have no way of getting "support" that way. I'm not envisaging him being ready to potty train before the October break at the earliest (he still shows no signs of being ready).

Anyone else in /has been in this position? What happens where you are?

They used to be bale to say only potty trained children could go to our preschool but due to new guidelines (national ones I think) all places have to take unpotty trained children.
At ours they will change pooey nappies but they have no way of disposing them so we have to take them home with us

ooh see another hread on this

I think it's really sad that they have taken a non-potty trained 3 yr old and are now making it an issue for you both. it is perfectly normal and very common for children (especially boys) not to be toilet trained by the age of 3 yrs old.

Either they shouldn't take them until they're trained (which personally I think is silly) or they should take them and change them. Your child will not do this any more quickly with pressure from the nursery put upon him.

Ours say no children in nappies.

posie, I saw and read that, not sure how much of it applies in Scotland (we have different inspection systems, for example).

MrsMattie, I don't think I made it clear from my OP, but I have no problems with the nursery about this. Yes they have to take him and can't turn him away just because he is not trained, because he is entitled to go. But there are only two members of staff (plus a student) in the nursery, and Child Protection laws state that two people have to be present for a nappy change (and Health and Safety laws state it can't be done in the nursery itself!). So they are stuck between a rock and a hard place - they cannot leave the entire class of 24 children unattended whilst they change my son's nappy!

I'm really after ideas/experiences from other people at this point, so I can have a useful discussion with the nursery later in the week.

Yes went to a meeting before the summer holidays and it's no nappies although they are happy to sort out any accidents that may happen.

It is a Forces pre school which comes under Service Children Education authority so maybe it's slightly different for them still?

x-posts - herbie - I think there are 24 in the class and three people (one is a student) - so in the 1 in 10 ratio that is appropriate to their age. They would have to have four members of staff in order to change a nappy and even then that would leave them with the incorrect ratio.

Thankfully it's not an issue for DS as he is now fully potty trained but for a while I thought it might be an issue as he was showing no interest at all but then mastered it almost overnight however he still can't/refuses to pull his pants back up!!!

Ds1 doesn't even know when he is weeing/pooing

Ah maybe as mine isn't. I don't think the forces schools in the UK come under the SCE, they come under the normal UK education authority, it's just the ones abroad, Germany, Gib, Cypus, Falklands etc

oh right herbie, I wonder then? There might be more staff, I didn't really look that hard . I'm fairly sure you need two for a nappy change here but I'm a bit out of touch with the regs (embarrassingly, as I used to be a manager of a pre-school )

I have been trying to find policies online but can't find anything specifically related to changing nappies

bump?

Miaou could you use pullups or training pants instead of nappies?
The Disability Discrimination Act says that children cannot be refused admission on grounds of incontinence (not toilet trained) "Education providers have an obligation to meet the needs of children with delayed personal development in the same way as they would meet the individual needs of children with delayed language, or any other kind of delayed development. Children should not be excluded from normal pre-school activities solely because of incontinence." and that parents should not be required to come and change nappies and the child should not be left in soiled/wet nappies.
"Asking parents of a child to come and change a child is likely to be a direct contravention of the DDA, and leaving a child in a soiled nappy for any length of time pending the return of the parent is a form of abuse"

Miaou if you have been told that the Child Protection law says thee must be two people you have been misinformed. Presumably all staff will have CRB checks (or they couldn't work with children) so there is no legal requirement.
"Child Protection

The normal process of changing a nappy should not raise child protection concerns, and there are no regulations that indicate that a second member of staff must be available to supervise the nappy changing process to ensure that abuse does not take place. Few setting/schools will have the staffing resources to provide two members of staff for nappy changing and CRB checks are carried out to ensure the safety of children with staff employed in childcare and education settings. If there is known risk of false allegation by a child then a single practitioner should not undertake nappy changing. A student on placement should not change a nappy unsupervised. "

here

DD did most of her first year in pre-school in nappies. The staff told me that there's usually a couple each year who start in them.
There policy was that they'd take the kids but not change them I was a SAHM and I'm only 5 minutes away so they could call me if she needed changing.
It only happenned 3 times from August to May so no problem really.

Their, not there

This was 4 years ago though so I don't know if the rules applied then. I didn't think to question it as I say I was close anyway and it only happenned three times.

nursery ds is due to go to wont take children who are still in nappies at all. they say it's because they have no changing facilities. and have no intention of putting any.

elmoandella technically they are breaking the law.

it's a new school, and when asked they say there's no future plans and it has to be put before the board for funding.

Re the DDA - surely that only applies if the child is incontinent due to disability? Not sure if a 3 year old still in nappies would be classed as delayed personal development.

I think that there are private nurseries here (who are in partnership with the LA) that stipulate that your child has to be toilet trained before they start.

agree with mrsz
they can't say they aren't putting any facilities in because that means they aren't dda compliant
every preschool has to have facilities for disabled children iirc