Can preschools charge top up fees?

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My DS has recently qualified for the 30 funded hours. I was surprised to get an invoice from his preschool for over £100 for the term. He does 3 full days, 9.05 am - 3.20pm. I was expecting his funded hours to be covered.
When I asked I was told that the extended sessions are charged at £7.25 per session, as the funded sessions are 3 hours in the am and 3 hours in the pm.
When I looked online it looks like government guidance says preschools should not charge top up fees.
They were quite cagey when I emailed, and stated that the care they provide us ' excellent value' but avoided answering my questions. Anyone else experienced this?

I was merely trying to find out if all preschools charge and if this is the norm. With all due respect, I wasn't asking if this was a great deal. It's a shame that the government are clearly not paying enough and it shouldn't be sold as ' free' hours in that case. And I'm sorry but I don't think providers should be able to make up fees with no consistency. I'm not even talking about my sons preschool now.

shouldn't be sold as ' free' hours in that case

Who is selling it as free?

Settings across the country are campaigning for people to be reminded it’s funded hours, not free.

You’ve been sold on something the government has promised you not the preschool.

As above posters have mentioned they are not allowed top up fees but can charge for other things.
My nursery charges for food and fundamentals.
Each local authority will have their own rules for additional charges. Our local authority states that there must be a way for children to take up the sessions without a charge.
Due to this we have to give the option or parents collecting at 12 and dropping off at 1pm (so they don't have lunch) and collect before tea. This is not advertises and will only be offered when parents query.
Check with your L.A.

Due to this we have to give the option or parents collecting at 12 and dropping off at 1pm (so they don't have lunch) and collect before tea

That is absolutely crap. Who would even be able to do that considering both parents have to be working to get the 30 hours funding anyway? Who wants to single out their child by taking them home for lunch and bringing them back?

Its that or they shut down though... Unless the staff work for free?

Nobody should work for free but what is the point of offering a service that (pprobably) nobody can use.

Childcare is mega expensive and that feels like a total slap in the face.

Again, your issue should be with the government who have promised this and not funded it properly.

Childcare is expensive, to pay for and to provide!

Who should pay the shortfall then?

Surely preschools could opt out? They didn't have to provide funded spaces?

Then people would send their children to the settings where there are funded places

It's amazing how quickly the 30 'free' hours have become an unquestionable right, and anything the preschool has to charge becomes unreasonable.

It is a very ill thought out scheme.

The government should be paying the nursery hourly rate surely? Or as close to.

Im not saying it's the nurseries fault I'm saying it seems utterly pointless for everyone involved to offer a service that's unusable

Well it was a vote winner wasn’t it? Parents’ heads were turned by it despite the campaigns by settings explaining why it wouldn’t work. No one cares and now they are using any way they can the generate income so they don’t go under.

Parents are still getting a massive discount off the actual fees, £100 for a term is a bargain vs no discount whatsoever.

And no the government don’t pay the nursery’s fees. Most places it’s not even close.

Agree you should 'blame' the government, not the preschool. £100 is a great deal nevertheless. If it's too much for you, you also have the option to not use the scheme.

Have you just got a new job OP and so your son is starting at pre school? Just find a pre school that works within your budget if so.

If you already work full time and he is already attending the pre-school non-funded then your childcare payments are considerably dropping compared to previous, no?!

So it’s £7.25 each day to cover lunch and lunch time? I think that’s quite reasonable? If it’s really not within your budget could you pay monthly? Or ask about the possibility of sending a packed lunch? They def should have told you there would be charges and how much and they should also be able to offer the funding free too (with the packed lunch) but there’s obv that extra time too. Remember that the funding is severely underfunded and nurseries are struggling to stay open as the gov just don’t cover their costs. It’s really not bad value for 30 hours a week.

Looney I think you have hit the nail on the head there. I think the issue here is the lack of communication. We were not informed of the charges in advance, what the fees are for etc and I perhaps naively assumed that the up to 30 hrs funding he gets would cover the 19 hours he attends as no food is provided by the preschool and I send a pack lunch.
I think it would be better if parents knew ahead and then can make an informed choice. I was not offered information about the sessions he could attend just using the funding until I specifically asked. It just feels rather underhand in a way.

If he only attends 19 hours I would make sure they’re only claiming that amount too.

As well as the government not funding places sufficiently the local councils also keep some back of the money they do send for ‘admin’!

For example the setting only received 80% of what the government provided as the council kept the rest. Campaigning as meant that this is going to change in April but the amount for each place per hour is still less then before the 30 hours scheme was started.

Hopefully the top ups in their various guises will only be necessary until the government realises it’s scheme needs to adequately funded and does so! It would also help if it was called funded hours instead of free and nurseries could top up per hour transparently. If parents were told they get £3.50 per hour towards their child’s care up to 30hrs then the setting that need £6 to be viable could simply charge the extra £2.50 openly. Would make things easier for everyone and give parents better choice as they could choose what they could afford between the settings on offer.

Is it term time only?

Are you sure they're putting it through as the free 30 hours, and have you done the online thing to register for it?

Could it be that they're only using your 15 hours and charging you for the rest?

The government should be paying the nursery hourly rate surely? Or as close to.

You'd think wouldn't you? But no the government doesn't pay the full amount of funded hours, even if a child gets funding for 1-1 support, the money received by the setting isn't actually enough to fund a 1-1.

If if helps, our nursery doesn't let you do 3 days and use all your 30 hours to cover those days, if you're in for a full day. They've spread it so it's averaged out over the year and you have to take a certain amount each day (they only offer certain sessions). Theyre technically not doing anything wrong, it's annoying, but I don't think they'd have been able to stay open otherwise. I still pay around £200 a month for 3 full days a week (early start though).

Is he for term time only or all year round? You are only entitled to 30 hours free during term time and this only covers care, not food, nappies, trips etc which they can charge top ups for. If he is in all year round many nurseries stretch the funding to reflect this, so he would be entitled to less each week, more like 23-25 hours dependent on whether the nursery closes for Christmas or has an enforced summer closure. They should have explained this in advance through. Also if you’ve booked session that bring your hours over your free entitlement, you would pay the balance on that session - they won’t round it down.

Ps the amount the government gives nurseries and preschools for the free entitlement isn’t enough for most to cover basic costs let alone flourish, so they have to cover these costs by increasing the care costs for parents with children under 3. The “free” bit is a bit bogus in my opinion. It was a flashy, vote-winning and ultimately not-we’ll-thought-through policy. And their website is shit.

The Nursery my 3 year old doesn’t charge top up fees - he goes 3 days a week, 7.30-5.30 and I pay nothing. I suspect that’s the exception not the norm though.

Spot on tumbleweed.

Sheraa - yes he's term time only. I am pretty sure the 30 hours have been registered as I had to give them a code. But I'll check.