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Preschool education

Get advice from other Mumsnetters to find the best nursery for your child on our Preschool forum.

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Original poster

Uniform compulsory at pre-school?

46 replies

Marabou · 10/08/2014 01:31

That's that really.. Can they demand that parents buy it for DC? It costs roughly 100 pounds all together, which I don't basically have..

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Toohotforfishandchips · 10/08/2014 22:50

Ours is led by a teacher and 3 TAs (it's big) but all play based. Mine have had a fantastic time there. I would seriously look at how they teach etc first however.

Pickelback · 10/08/2014 22:51

This reply has been deleted

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Toohotforfishandchips · 10/08/2014 22:52

I don't know any private nurseries with uniform. Private Schools yes.

starlight1234 · 10/08/2014 22:58

Are these specific trousers etc as. I expect my DC to come back from nursery dirty and not worry about wrecking expensive clothes.

Original poster

Marabou · 10/08/2014 23:04

Hm the other nursery if private too, but they don't do uniforms.. Unfortunately, there are no other nurseries within a walking distance and as I don't drive I feel it would be too much of a stretch to start taking DS to nursery on a bus seeing that he'll only be doing the 15 hours a week.

The reason I chose to put DS there is that he had a place in the local primary school nursery, but when I went to see it, I didn't like it at all. They had one qualified teacher and one TA for 24 children in the nursery class and as a result (I think) they required for children to be fully independent in the toilet (DS is out of nappies, but still needs help in the toilet). The meeting I had with the deputy head teacher was very rushed and unpleasant and I was not able to ask any questions really. When I was walking home from the school nursery, I decided to pop in the nursery where I then decided to put DS in to have a look and I found it very nice and the nursery manager was pleasant.

I have seen the other nursery within walking distance as well and had no concerns really. They also have a good Ofsted report. They don't have any outside space though. The nursery I have chosen only has a tiny stamp-sized area in the front of the nursery, so it's not much better..

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Original poster

Marabou · 10/08/2014 23:07

Sorry, the other IS private too, rather..

starlight1234 yes I've seen kids in other nurseries wearing jumpers and joggers, so I don't really know what they are doing in this nursery.. Unless they expect the children to sit still all day...

Oh, and I forgot to add, it's difficult to find out more about the teacher etc., as he (I think they said it was a he) is only starting this September.

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Toohotforfishandchips · 11/08/2014 08:43

What is the ratio there then? Most school Nurseries do help lots of children with toileting. Have you looked at childminders instead? They offer the 15 hours normally too as long as council registered

Original poster

Marabou · 11/08/2014 12:06

I'm actually not sure what the ratio is in the other nursery.

The nursery I have chosen was opened in 2012 and had very few children in the beginning and group sizes were small. As I mentioned, many of my neighbour's kids go there, as it's so close to us and all of them are happy with it. The trouble is, the nursery has grown quite significantly during the past year and there are now much more kids. So the experiences I've heard from the other parents near us are not exactly accurate, as they have been happy with the small group sizes etc. I've also read a few online reviews and all of them have also commented on how it's a small nursery and all the staff are very caring etc. It does look like the nursery is about to change quite a bit with the introduction of the teacher etc.

Unfortunately, there are no childminders within a comfortable distance from where we are. I know one lovely childminder, who I would love to us, but she lives quite far and is generally looking for fulltime, rather than part-time mindees.

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Original poster

Marabou · 11/08/2014 12:12

..I know one lovely childminder, who I would love to use of course

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Toohotforfishandchips · 11/08/2014 13:54

It sounds like they will get the teacher and yes then go to 1:12 instead etc Why wouldn't they as they are a business. It will be much more like school nursery - esp with the uniform etc Maybe that's what other parents have wanted

Original poster

Marabou · 11/08/2014 14:09

Yes of course they are looking to make profit, why wouldn't they. Not sure if the other parents would have wanted the changes to be honest, but then again, it is a business, so in it for themselves anyway (not saying that in a "bad" way by the way).

Right, I'm getting more and more torn. There are unfortunately no online reviews for the other nursery, although I know two moms, whose kids go there and they are happy with it. The only thing with that nursery is that it has no outside space what so ever.

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starlight1234 · 11/08/2014 14:38

What does the other nursery do about outside time. As it is a requirement of Ofsted they have outside time?

Have you visited both. I would visit again get a feel for both places. Go with a list of questions. If you see parents coming out have a word with them too

Littlefish · 14/08/2014 14:54

If he is only doing his 15 funded hours then they cannot insist on him having the uniform. Children accessing the 15 hours only must be able to access them completely freely. This means that nurseries cannot insist on payment for uniform, school lunches, additional activities etc that happen within those 15 hours. I suggest you phone your local authority early years team and talk to them about it.

Original poster

Marabou · 14/08/2014 20:40

starlight sorry for the late reply.. I have visited both nurseries and have now called a lady I know whose son goes to the other nursery and arranged a playdate so I can ask her some more questions. Hopefully I will be able to make up my mind then. For the activities outside they take the children out to a near-by park, which is another concern of mine, as my DS has a habit of wrenching his hand off mine when we walk somewhere..

littlefish yes that's what I thought initially, but then came to think of kids wearing uniforms in primary schools and wonder what the difference is there. Shouldn't it be similar that children should be able to attend state schools free of charge, or is there a difference..? Also why are some nurseries allowed to charge fees then, if the child only attends the 15 funded hours? I went to see another nursery not too far from where we live and they would have charged roughly £100/month on top.

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Littlefish · 14/08/2014 20:49

Legally, the nurseries are not allowed to charge top-up fees, but sadly, many do.

The terms and conditions of offering the 15 hours are that they must be completely free of charge, but so many nurseries feel unable to follow the rules as the sum paid by the local authority is less than the nursery would normally charge. It doesn't make it right though.

Toohotforfishandchips · 14/08/2014 21:05

There are guidelines that say that uniform should not be so expensive as to exclude people. As it is generally cheap as chips with a full outfit less than a tenner it's accepted.

TouchOfNatural · 15/08/2014 22:01

There's nothing 'sad' about preschools needing to charge for extras.. They would close down otherwise. Running a quality preschool costs a lot and the govt funding paid is not only dreadful (in my area it's a third of the hourly fee, which is standard for the area), it's also a pain to administer and often paid infrequently. Not monthly. So cash flow becomes a problem then too.

There are MANY private preschools pulling out from offering/accessing the funding (state preschools get a lot of govt help naturally).. So if you find a lovely private/independent preschool that offers/accesses the funding then grab that space quickly. They are not obliged to offer it at all. They run at a loss with funded children, hence charging for extras sometimes.

Re outdoor space.. There are many preschools that lack it out of no choice of their own.. But do they take the children to the park every day? Find out what outdoor time they have.

Littlefish · 15/08/2014 22:12

It is sad Touch, because it means that many families simply can't afford to send their children there, once again meaning that the most deprived families fail to access the funded sessions.

Insisting that parents pay over £100 for uniform in order to access free sessions is ridiculous.

Toohotforfishandchips · 15/08/2014 22:28

It's a farce as the three year old funding is designed to offer every child a free start to their education. If is designed to help ensure all children the same opportunities - FREE

Original poster

Marabou · 15/08/2014 23:05

Hm, I can appreciate the dilemma caused to the nurseries of course and see why they would need to resort to top-up fees. It seems then it's an issue, where the government is failing rather than the business itself.

Surely the private nurseries should then just stop offering the funded places..? There must be something in it for them as well, or else they wouldn't accept children without a fee..? All in all, I agree, the government is failing children from more under priviledged backgrounds, again.

Well, I've not discussed the uniform with them directly, yet. I intend to ask further about this during the settling in sessions later this month. TouchOfNatural I'm not entirely sure if the other nursery takes the children our every day..

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TouchOfNatural · 15/08/2014 23:38

Agreed re the uniform! That's scary, ridiculous.

Many offer it as they are running a business that is child focused and they want to offer it to all/as many children as possible for that very reason ... It really doesn't make good business sense to offer it (private preschools). Says a lot about the private preschools that DO offer/access it.

It's a govt issue. They need to pour more £ into early years. Start more state preschools or up the funding big time for the 'free' grant. To a sustainable level. Then so many more kids can be reached. There is a lot being done behind the scenes to try and make this happen. With childminders (who can offer the same thing as preschool.. With less kids).. And preschools.

Having a child is expensive and it's the same everywhere in the world - if you opt for private nursery over state nursery, you pay. One of the reasons nurseries (and reception) is not legally compulsory. Kids can start school later.

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