Nursery school and lunch time pickup. (Long, sorry)

[bluechik]

Hi all, DS1 attends nursery Monday to Friday from 9-12 under the free 15 hours scheme. The nursery is attached to a school. There is an option to send DS1 for lunch in which case he would be at nursery from 9-12.30, but as he is only just 3 and it is his first time in nursery I prefer to pick him up and he has lunch at home with me and DS2. Most other children have lunch at nursery. Until recently, when I arrived to pick up DS1 he would be in the classroom with two or three other 'morning' children and the class teacher, while the other children were in the school hall having lunch. This time with the nursery teacher seemed relaxed and usually they would be reading stories together, helping tidy up etc. Last week the nursery changed the pick up process as they found the nursery teacher did not have enough time for her own lunch break. Now DS1 and the other 'morning' children are zipped into their coats, given their bags and then made to wait on a bench in the school hall under the eye of support staff until they are picked up. The support staff do not play or interact with the children as they are busy serving lunch to the others. I have just discovered that they are made to wait from about 11.40-11.45 while the other children are served lunch and eat. They are given a few books to look at but are expected to sit still on the bench all this time.

I am pretty annoyed about this as I think it is quite mean to expect a little 3 year old to sit and wait while other children eat lunch in front of them - DS1 will be hungry by then, and probably hot in his coat. Also I can't see that this is in any way any kind of quality experience since he is not free to move about, has no activities other than a couple of books (he cannot read obviously). Of course I think the teacher deserves her break, but I would prefer the nursery school to own up and say they do not have the staff child ratios to provide the full 15 hours of 'educational provision'. Now that I am aware of the timings I will be picking him up at 11.40 in future but wondered if this is acceptable and common practice in other nursery schools? Just wanted to add, I have always been punctual in picking him up at 12 until now and as far as I am aware so have the other 'morning' parents. This is meant to be an Ofsted-rated 'good' setting but their approach to this particular issue seems like poor quality provision to me. I would really appreciate other views.

fuckwittery, I have only just realised that this is a new ongoing arrangement as the school haven't discussed this upfront. I will definitely be talking to them about this.

Yes, the ratio is 1:8. However, I have worked in a nursery where the staffing was less, with the excuse that other adults were available to help. In reality they were doing admin in another building, but would answer the phone and reappear in an emergency.
I wonder how many other places have this sort of money saving arrangement.
Also, another factor is if one if the adults is a qualified teacher, in which case he/she can look after 13 at this age.

Hang on? They charge for meals that are served within the free 15 hours? They're NOT allowed to do that! They either serve the meals after the end of the free session, or the have to include the meal, without additional cost.

That's what I was told when looking for a setting suitable for DS3. And he only started in September!

The staffing doesn't sound great to me either, as I understand it the teacher can have a 1:13 ratio but unless the nursery nurses/TAs have a post-grad qualification too then they should be in a 1:8 ratio.

Certainly my DS's nursery class has a teacher and 2 TAs, and often a further LSA if there is a child with additional needs that has 1:1. They don't go for lunch until after the free session, and the children are sent out for parents to sort coats and bags, time in their session isn't wasted doing that.

Couthy - they are allowed to charge for lunch, as long as children can bring in packed lunches if they prefer.

Lilyaldrin - if a qualified teacher is present, then the ratio within the whole nursery is 1:13, not just 1:13 for the teacher.

I'd be upset about this - your DS should be getting 3 hours a day of proper nursery time. I doubt that the funding LEA would like it either.

I also think that the staffing ratio is pretty poor. My DD's nursery maintain 1:4 right the way through to preschool and I think it is better for the children and the staff. 1:13 is so different to that.

Breathes - the ratio for staff to 2 year olds is 1:4 I think, but 3 year olds is either 1:8 or 1:13 dependant on whether there is a qualified teacher. Most settings don't have a choice over ratio - the money simply isn't available to provide more adults, particularly if settings are in receipt of the 15 hours funding.

Yes - I know that it is the ratio for 2 year olds, but DD's nursery continue it right the way through. They also offer the 15 hours funding with no top ups or strings attached. I'm not entirely sure how they manage that, but they do.

If you are not happy then you could always ring ofsted and ask them what they think.
i doubt they would be very happy at the idea of children having to sit and watch other children eating while they are waiting to be picked up.