please help - DD doesn't seem happy at nursery but only has less than two terms left

[allag]

Hello

would really appreciate some advice please. My DD started a nursery in Chelsea last January, and for the first two terms she was doing the afternoons and was loving it, even though she changed teachers after the first term (she moved to an older class). Then from September she changed grousp yet again and we moved to morning sessions; the teacher was different too. We were late for the start of term as were stuck abroad (couldn't travel because of the summer fires) and when we did start, DD was very dazed and lost. I noticed instantly that the teacher's style was rather less warm and affectionate and more stern and business-like, which I think added to the fact that she was starting a couple of weeks later. Unfortunately she has also missed quite a bit of school because she kept getting ill all through the autumn and winter - but that notwithstanding, things have not really improved. Overall she has attended enough for me to have expected her to settle in - but while she does not complain about going, she never seems excited, and always seems to just get this slightly dazed and ever-so-slightly intimidated look about her when i drop her off nad pick her up. i have raised this once of twice with the teacher and the headmistress but that was a while back and they said "give her more time to settle". there has been no improvement. my DH noticed hte other day that during outside play she didnt' seem to be integrating and playing with the other kids but the teacher was making no effort to include her. She is also now being described by the school as very quiet and not very outgoing and while i don't mind that in itself, i known this is not how she used to be. i am very worried about this damaging her confidence with Big School pending (she starts Reception in September). I asked the teacher this morning whether she plays wiht the others at break and she immediately tried to say that this is down to not enough playdates - we haven't been able to arrange many as we have been moving but i feel the teacher shouldnt' be using it as the only reason - i don't feel she has made enough of an effort to help her. i am having a more detailed chat on Wednesday but have a feeling that my daughter is past the stage where she can come out of her shell here - i think she also finds the teacher herself slightly intimidating (for instance, one morning my DD said "good morning" to her quietly when we came in, and she made her say it again, more than once, until my DD was maintaining eye contact and speaking loudly enough - is that normal???!!). i am sure the teacher will tell me to arrange more playdates which of course i will try and do now that we have moved - but i don't think that alone will solve anything. My DH is tempted to move schools as he doesn't want any further dents to her confidence - but is that sensible, given it is now only the rest of this term, and the summer term left? I am so sorry this is so long and dull but i would appreciate any advice on how to handle it - i feel awful for leaving it so long but thought she simply needed time to settle in. THank you so much.

First off the teacher really does not sound nice.

Do you have any chance of changing schools?

Are you a SAHM - does she actually NEED to attend a preschool? Could you take her out and do more free unstructured drop-in type groups?

And in a nutshell, I think I'd take her out if I were in your shoes.

thank you so much. THis is really what i am leaning towards but did not want to overreact. i work the days she is at school - but we don't do it for childcare reasons as my DH looks after my two DDs (we have a one-yr old) when i am at work. Mainly, i have been thinking, for socialization and learning, she should be attending somewhere but of course i would rather keep her at home than take her to be miserable. i am going to contact other schools, closer to us - we are in BAttersea now. And if we don;t find one that we/she loves - we'll do drop in sessions like you suggest. i suppose my worry with that is that if she is not at school, she is in for a shock in September when Reception starts - what do you think? Her teacher has been telling us that we need to increase from three to four or five mornings a week in order to make sure she is ready for REception, but of course i haven't wanted to do that given everything.

try Thomas's Battersea nursery. they may have a free place you never know. It is FAB. Battersea Church Road in the crypt of St Mary's

Thank you!!! will do.

Allag

Can you change sessions so that she is with a different teacher? That one sounds draconian! If you can't I would have her out of there in a shot, whether another place was available or not.

It will do far more damage than good to keep her there.

She sounds like a sweet little girl who will be just fine going into reception without 'nursery training' first. It is good, if it's good, but this isn't. Also, it's far more necessary/valuable for kids who cannot sit down and will not do as they are asked - which doesn't sound like your DD.

If you can get her into another nursery, great - if not, time at home with Daddy and some 'groups' if he will go, will be FAR better than this - this is simply making her miserable and breaking her spirit.

:(

Don't feel awful for leaving it so long - you did what you thought was right at the time and now you have decided she's not settling in even though you have given it time, you are looking at other options. No need to beat yourself up!!

Plenty of children the world over start school without having 'become used to it' at nursery! She will be knackered - but they all are - no matter if they have been to nursery or not!

i have to say that i now don't know how i lived without this site. :)
Thank you chipping - i must say this is exactly what DH and I are thinking now but great to hear you agree. she IS a very very sweet girl - no trouble following instructions - but what breaks my heart is she is now - at least at nursery - much quieter and less confident than she used to be. She simply seems to clam up.
i am going to speak to the teacher this week as she has asked me to come back for a chat when she has more time when i brought it up this morning. But i don't expect much to come out of that so I will also see the headmistress this week about changing groups. i am convinced they will say it will de-stabilise her further as I KNOW they will say this is all due to her missing school. So i think I will probably just stop attending if my expectations are correct. Thanks all.

Ah - yes it's a great site :)

I forgot to say before, and your last post has reminded me... it is rubbish about playdates. Of course they are fun and kids love them but there are plenty of children who are settled in and loving nursery who don't have play dates. It's a convenient excuse for a nursery who are failing a child.

She is quieter and less confident because of them - not because you aren't hosting playdates 5 nights a week or because she's been off when she was sick.

Making a small child keep repeating 'Hello' until she maintains eye contact and does it loudly enough for them? Weird? Sounds like the nursery of a very snotty private school still in the very dark ages. I'm very much of the 70's parenting style and find most a lot of the 'child centered' stuff far too OTT, I'm very strict on manner and kids doing as they are told not as they please... so if I'm saying they are horrid and old fashioned they must be BAD

Their attitude is crap. I wouldn't send DD in this week at all. I would go to one short meeting where I would ask the question - 'Can she be moved to different sessions with different teachers' and if the answer was 'No' I would cut them off in their tracks, not listen to all the crap... and simply tell them 'Thank you for that, I'll just wait here while you get DD's things for me, she wont be back'. Don't take any crap. They sound awful.

Think of us standing right behind you¬!!

i have been beating myself up about playdates now so so good to hear that it IS rubbish - i did think it is rather convenient way to deny any responsibility for not doing their job properly. i didn't grow up in this country so didn't even know people did the playdate thing and i am not nornmally able to hang around chatting to other moms much (though i try) - i normally either have DD2 hanging off me or now, post-maternity leave, rushing off to work. and i am very keen to set some up now that we have a house that is not covered in paint and ladders but like you say, that is just an excuse - i am furious that this is all she could come up with rahter than admitting that she has been failing DD. the making her repeat "good morning" would have scared the hell out of me - let alone a three year old. i wanted to complain then but DD was sick and we were out for ages. oh God poor DD . this is so helpful - all of this - gives me reassurance when i go in there as they really are veyr good at excuses at that place.
bran, it is not a pure montessori but is said to have elements of it. Sadly i think this particular teacher is the problem as DD LOVED the other teachers - she literally couldn't wait for gates to open. ANd observing other teachers - they are much much friendlier than this one, who is always stressed or complaining about something. this school is veyr much of the attitude that they do everything perfectly and can't do anythign wrong - must say it is a massive disappointment given the song and dance there is about this place, and all the rave reviews and outstanding ofsted. just goes to show - the hype is not always a good guide.

I would really like to be let loose on this woman! I'd happily put her right in her place!

Are you clearly not UK born and raised? (American maybe?) If so, they are even more out of order implying you are the only one not doing the play date drama. I would say that the majority of 4 year olds and under don't have 'play dates'. It would be an interesting poll to do. However, what I can assure you is that your DD is not the only one not racing around to playdates in all her spare time!!

I like having kids around and going to other peoples places because it's nice for me and for them, I love seeing them play together - but it's as much for me as it is them - no doubt about it and there are people that can't think of anything worse - I can understand that too - do what is right for your family, it really doesn't make any difference.

My friend is a SAHD both of his went to nursery, neither of them had a single play date/toddler group/music group/gym class or anything else because he felt too self conscious to go (he's lovely, a brilliant Dad, great DH, great friend - just doesn't like groups particularly and especially not large groups of women! LOL He does a lot of classroom stuff and school trips now though - so he's well making up for it) both of them settled into nursery and school without a backwards glance!

Don't worry about DD - once she is away from that woman and in a better environment she will spring back!

It really does sound like it's just this one teacher who is the problem. Do you think DD could be happy there with another teacher or do you think it's really too little too late and she'd still be unhappy?

Do what you think is right - but I'd love to be there to see the look on her face if you tell DD she never has to go back

i am Russian. i have been here a long time but no,we didn't have playdates when i was growing up, and the education systen (including pre school) is a new territory for me - i came to the UK for A levels (and then beyond). my DH is as English as they come, really, but he says - when i start panicking about not having done enough - that he hated playdates when he was little and he wished his Mother had let him make up his own mind who to play wiht rather than dragging him around visiting children he didn't even like..... . now that is not at all why we havne't done much and i AM all for them. But you are right they should not be a necessary condition for a child's happiness at nursery.
i don't know about joining another group - part of me just wants to take her to a different setting and wonders if she might find it confusing to still see the teacher and hte kids in her class but being somewhere else (they all sit in one big hall but at different tables so see each other - not sure if it is a typical set up). and then the other part thinks might be more logical and less of an upheaval for her to change groups.... i have just realized that this term there are three kids, at least, who have disappeared from the group! i wonder if they found the same issues.
will speak to the head and unless they move us we'll be off. i have the meeting set up with the teacher but not really sure there is any point. thank you so much for all the support. invaluable.

For what its worth, I've never done playdates with my DD, I stopped taking her to a playgroup too as she obviously wasn't enjoying it and preferred to spend time with me.
I'm not a SAHM and DD has been in nursery 2 mornings a week, she started nursery at the local school in September and with a lovely teacher and a small class she is settling in well and making friends.
Some kids love playing with others and some mature in their social skills at a different rate. DD's nursery did feed back that DD preferred to play alone but did not think this was a problem.
Many kids do not have any formal nursery 'training' for reception class and manage perfectly well.

thanks beamur - this is removing a massive amount of guilt as the teacher really did make me feel like i am failing my DD by not doing playdates. i am realizing, as well, that while partly it has been because we have had a horrific house-move, and I have a one year old (who has a different routine and made the logistics harder), i also never felt a massive amount of interest from her in playdates. she loves spending time with me and DD2, enjoys playing with other kids in playgrounds occasionally, does play wiht classmates if we bump into htem in the park but generally she seems happiest with me. i feel i really can do more gentle encouraging for her to make friends, but - to repeat myself - don't think playdates explain her becoming less than happy at nursery. I think our DDs sound similar - i KNOW mine would love nursery with a lovely teacher and a small setting which is what she used to have, and i also know she has never been that fussed with other kids so far, although certainly has enjoyed it a lot on occasions.

Allag - I am glad you are feeling less guilty.

TBH if she is just going to be at a different group and not in another room I would take her out. I would look around for another nursery but not stress at all if I didn't find one.

If you don't find another nursery I'd find an activity or two for her to do with other kids, one without parent participation if DH isn't keen. My niece goes to dance class -they do ballet/tap/jazz/street - basically have a lot of fun to music!

The only reason she has become less happy, less confident and less outgoing at nursery is because of the way they have been treating her - I wouldn't give them the opportunity to make this any worse.

As I said, I'd love to see her happy little face when you tell her she doesn't have to go anymore. You could always try telling her this before your meeting and if she suprises you by gettin upset and saying she wants to go you can ask for her to be moved into another group - if she looks thrilled you have your answer x

Playdates can be great fun if they like the kids and want to play with them or hell if they don't - also, even when they like the kids at that age, even on a play date, they will still often play with the other kids toys by themselves!

Life is too short to be unhappy at nursery school! x

You could always try telling her this before your meeting and if she suprises you by gettin upset and saying she wants to go you can ask for her to be moved into another group - if she looks thrilled you have your answer

That's a really good idea.

Have just caught up on this and wow, I can't believe they were trying to blame a lack of playdates! FFS! How is a one-to-one supposed to prepare for a group setting?

DD is 3.7 and hasn't had a 'playdate' to speak of. She's happy at preshool because both settings she attends are fantastic with lovely cuddly staff!

In fact, she will actually have her first playdate soon, and that has only come about because she's made a particular 'best friend' at daycare.

Jeez. I hope you tell them exactly why you're taking her out and maybe the teacher will change attitudes (though I wouldn't bet on it).

I think the blaming of "lack of playdates" is totally bizarre.

I just hope you're not locked in to a lengthy notice period with that nursery! I hope you will also have the chance to explain (if you leave) to the nursery management that the reason is how unsatisfactory the provision was in the new class, with specific examples of why.

BTW: have you found the One O'Clock Club in Battersea Park yet? It's towards the SW corner (next to the adventure playground), and as well as being great for having equipment (and messy play) you might not have at home, also has info on other activities in the area.

thanks all. i tried to do it last night actually - telling her she doesn't have to go any more and we can either find her a new school or she can stay home. Bless her, the little diplomat - she said she "likes her teacher a little bit, but not very much" and would really like to go to a new school. So I guess that is the answer really. and also yesterday morning when i was taking her in, she thought she was going to Queens'Gate as we had just been there for assessment a few days before (she is starting there in Sep) and when she realized she wasn't, yet, she started crying. i think in addition to her excitement about Queen's Gate it is also due to the distinct lack of excitement about nursery.

so yes, i will hold those conversations tomorrow but think it's the end of it for us. Thanks everyone - i would have been totally lost without you... :)
Oni, we used to go to the One O clock all the time when she was younger - now she gets stuck on the playground right next to it instead - but it is a great idea for activities. She had started doing Ballet which we stopped when she was being sick but will start doing that again, too. She loved it. i am feeling SO happy now at the thought of the end of this lingering misery she has been through - the problem has been, she hasn't been complaining much, but it's just like she has been losing her spark.

Oh little pet :) A proper little diplomat for sure! She's excited about going to QG and crying at going to Nursery - yes,of course she nees to be going there 4 mornings a week to prepare

Great decision well made!!!

Do not let them guilt you into taking her back - they only sound like they know what they're talking about - all they actually want is your money!! Several people have left - they need to be able to work out that 2+2=nasty, draconian woman upsetting the kids!!

Here's to getting her sparkle back - cheers!!

good point well made. I feel like a right idiot thinking this might help Reception. Well, better late than never. thank you, thank you. (need one of those big red glasses!!!! :) )

i mean, glasses of red :) :)

Allag - don't feel bad, people you should be able to trust were leading you astray and feeding you a line. They should feel bad, not you. It's only a wee blip in DD's long, long life - she'll wont even remember it if you don't say anything more about it. Nursery/play group is supposed to help prepare them for school, it can help them learn that you have to follow the rules, do as your told, sit on the mat etc and a lot of children really do need that and it's easier on them and the teacher if they arrive at reception with these basic skills. But it sounds like your DD is a lovely little poppet who will be just fine if she goes to another nursery or not and would be worse off left at this one.

Let us know how the meeting goes - then it's upwards and onwards - no more dwelling on the would have, could have, should haves!

You are right. I will of course give you a full report. Thank you for an umpteenth time.

Sorry you are having such a difficult time. Thomas's in Battersea a call - my cousin is the deputy head and it is such a lovely pre-school.