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Pregnancy

Talk about every stage of pregnancy, from early symptoms to preparing for birth.

Epidurals, Safe or not?

36 replies

yellow · 06/10/2004 11:46

Am 29 weeks with my first DD and have forced myself to start thinking about the birth. I have heard good and bad things about epidurals and wondered if you could advise. I heard there is a relatively new epidural which is called a mobile epidural where they use a lower dose. I think I would like the option of having this but keep hearing things about epidurals going wrong, also I have heard you have to let the midwives know on arrival at the hospital if you would like an epidural as there needs to be an available doctor and if you don't you run the risk of not gettong one. Am starting to panic about it all any advice?

OP posts:
poppyseed · 06/10/2004 13:13

I've had two and would fully recommend them. First one with DD was traditional type and I had a mobile one with DS. Try to have a mobile one if they offer it at your hospital as imo you can feel significantly more to push. It's a very strange feeling - having the sensation of the contraction but with no pain. Don't get me wrong I wasn't complaining!!
Each to their own really on this topic as everybody wants something different out of their births - usually their bouncing baby . I personally felt that I didn't need to feel the pain of labour to have satisfying births and was calm, collected and excited both times. I take a paracetamol when I have a headache so didn't flinch when offered the drugs for perhaps the most intense pain that I was going to experienced??

poppyseed · 06/10/2004 13:18

Forgot to say - check in a dvance that your hospital offers an epidural service - and an out of hours one too (for middle of the night stuff). Ask for one nice and early so that staff can get ready and so that you haven't totally lost the plot when they come to do it.
Whatever you choose best of luck

pupuce · 06/10/2004 13:25

This article from AIMS (Association for Improvement of Maternity Services) might be of interest to some of you - it refers to reserach on the effect of epidurals, pethidine and diamorphine:

Another study has confirmed the Swedish research which showed a relationship between women receiving pain relieving drugs in labour and their children having a greater risk of becoming drug addicts in later life.

In Rhode Island, USA, researchers have been following up over 4,000 children born from 1959-66. A previous study of psychiatric problems in these children had identified 69 who developed drug addiction problems. Using the same technique as had already been used in Stockholm, they compared their birth care with that of 33 of their brothers and sisters who were also in the long-term study. Using siblings as controls means that they would have similar background and social circumstances.

They found that 23% of addicts and only 6% of controls had been exposed to three or more doses of opiates or barbiturates given to the mother within 10 hours of their birth. This means a four to fivefold increase in addiction risk. The researchers checked to see whether other obstetric factors could account for the difference, and they did not.
They conclude, "These findings imply that in utero exposure to high dose medication may be an important and preventable risk factor for later substance abuse."

AIMS Comment
Ever since the Swedish research was first published in 1988 we have been badgering governments and Royal Colleges to consider the serious implications, and suggesting at the very least repeat studies should be done. Only this summer, after writing to Tony Blair. we got a response from the Department of Health saying the Swedish work was on a small sample, it was now over a decade old, other researchers had not taken it up and they would need more convincing evidence before they did further research in the UK.

Now a study on a different population shows similar results. The first author, Karin Nyberg, was one of the original Swedish team, now at Gothenberg University. The other two come from Harvard Medical School of Public Health and Brown University Department of Psychology. The work was funded by the Swedish Medical Association and the National Institute of Mental Health in the USA. This can hardly be dismissed as maverick. backwoods stuff. However, research which produces awkward findings is, as Michel Odent has pointed out, seldom replicated or quoted.

This study has the advantage that it is based on data collected prospectively, so birth records are good. However, the sample is still small, for understandable reasons, and the addiction figures are for barbiturates (no longer used) as well as opiates. It is unfortunate that there are so few controls.

It only tells us about children of mothers who had three or more doses. We do not know what effects, if any, smaller or less frequent doses could have. This is an area where animal research might help, and the authors do quote one study on rats which gives some support to the idea that drugs given early may alter the reaction of the brain to exposure in later life.

Anyway, we continue our weary battle with the Department of Health.

Reference

Nyberg, K, et al, Perintal medication as a potential risk factor for adult drug abuse in a North American cohort, Epidemiology, 2000: 11: 715-6

JoolsToo · 06/10/2004 13:43

poppyseed - "I personally felt that I didn't need to feel the pain of labour to have satisfying births" Amen to THAT

poppyseed · 06/10/2004 13:47

Joolstoo
Pupuce - thats epidemiologists for you!!

prettycandles · 06/10/2004 14:38

I had an epidural during my first birth, it only worked down one side and my idiot midwife (sorry, I know most are excellent and I have also had wonderful midwives, but this one was awful) wouldn't let me move as the anaesthetist had recommended to improve the effect, nor to give birth in my prefered position, despite the epidural being nominally 'mobile'. It was a horrible experience, which left me unable to walk or balance properly for the first 3-4 days after the birth, but nonetheless it helped me. I am convinced that, after about 30h at 3cm, the 20m of adequate pain relief that the epidural gave me helped me to relax and get on with the job, because I then dilated the rest of the way in about 2-3h. And of course the fact that it was incomplete meant that I was able to feel to push and give birth without further intervention.

I hadn't wanted any pr other than G&A, but epidural was my choice over opiates if I had to have pr. For my second birth all I had was a few breaths of G&A, and the pains were no worse than they had been with the incomplete epidural (but the urge to push was utterly overwhelming the second time).

My cousin, on the other hand, turned up at the hospital for each of her three births saying 'Hello, my name is XXXX and I'm in labour. Give me an epidural now please.' and she had textbook births with no further interventions and minimal tearing. Go figure.

motherinferior · 06/10/2004 14:41

Well, on that analysis, pupuce, I fully expect dd2 to smoke FAR too much dope in later life, given just how bombed I was on gas and air when she emerged

pupuce · 06/10/2004 14:44

MI - I am not sure that gas and air is an opiate though.... it's laughing gas....
Mears might be able to confirm if that fits in the opiate category.

MTS · 06/10/2004 14:47

just a brief point - which I don't think anyone else has covered - apologies if I haven't read the thread carefully enough - but diamorphine/pethidine aren't necessarily risk-free or safer than an epidural. Diamorphine (and I suspect pethidine would be the same) can stop you dilating effectively. After I had diamorphine this happened to me, resulting in DS becoming distressed, and me ending up on a syntocin drip to get me going again.

just my tuppenorth

Distracted · 06/10/2004 15:21

I had an epidural last time and would also say that you do need to ask for it in good time, as it takes up to an hour to set up. I asked for it when I could no longer bear the pain (and had decided in advance I didn't want pethidine, although they tried hard to persuade me to have this instead). They initially agreed and then refused as I was 8 cm and they said it was too late and the baby would be born within the hour, so no time.

To cut a long story short I stayed at 8 cm for at least 6 hours as baby was sideways on and not pressing on one side of cervix, which didn't dilate. 2 hours after original request was examined again and they then realised baby sideways, I hadn't progressed etc. and agreed to epidural which did take a further 1 hour to set up. Having by then been at the point where I couldn't really bear the pain for 3 hours it was absolute bliss when the epidural kicked in. Truly fantastic

Apparently you can have an epidural from 3 cm dilated so I wished I had asked earlier.

As I understand it spinal blocks are ONLY used for CS, as it is one dose and can't be topped up like an epidural can.

I am about to give birth to second child and will probably have an epidural again (although slightly mixed feelings - will wait and see to some extent).

It often does slow things down and I couldn't feel to push, plus had to of course push lying on my back (think that's the biggest disadvantage). I spent 2.5 hours pushing when midwives told me to (did have a bit of an idea when contractions were coming) and ended up having to have ventouse. Some of my problems were probably also down to exhaustion though.

Our hospital doesn't do mobile epidurals - if they did and it allowed you to deliver in a better position then I don't think I'd have any hesitations as the pain relief was absolutely fantastic.

SpringChicken · 06/10/2004 15:33

Definitely have an open mind is the best advice!

I went into my labour with a completely open mind about everything except pethedine and ended up having that as well as an epidural!
I did have a bad labour which lasted a long time and was bloody painful from the word go so i was extremely thankful for the epidural.

The only thing is i had mine from 12 midnight until i delivered DD at 09.55 and by the time she arrived it had worn off - i was given a higher dose as i told my midwife it didn't appear to be working then we just decided to give up because after 2 supposed higher doses i could feel every little niggle!
In the end i was so knackered i had to have a ventouse delivery which may have just been because i was so tired or may have been because of the epidural i don;t know. I think there is meant to be a higher chance of an assisted delivery if you have an epidural.

Good Luck Hope this thread helps x

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