20 week scan - has anyone opted to not have one?

[blossomgirl]

Hi. Wondering about not having my 20 week scan (the first). I'm not needing to meet our little person like this; know they are in there, wanted & loved. Also sex is unimportant. Wondered if there is true value to the unborn child?

I'm not a tree hugger but I do seem to be feeling very protective over having measurements and classifications made of this person in my tum, and I know they can only detect form not function of what they test, so i'm questioning if i want to even go down this interventionalist road when not all the facts will be to hand anyway?

Please help anyone, my prep notes only mention screening for 'abnormalities' so perhaps im taking a negative view of this and need to get a grip! Thanks

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GRRRRrrr I hate the MN search engine, nowadays... there was a really good thread on this earlier, which included a comment by Mears (the MW who posts on MN) that at least one hospital (H. Trust?) has phased out the 20 week scan because they cause more problems than they prevent -- but I can't find it so you can read it in her own words.

That is the anti-argument... 20 week scan may pick up an important problem that truly benefits from monitoring or treatment before birth, and it can detect fetuses with such severe abnormalities that you might choose not to continue the pregnancy, but it's more likely to pick up non-existent "maybe" problems, that lead to extra scans and stress for the parents, and then the decision that there never really was a problem, anyway. So you have to decide for yourself which feels like the worst case scenario (small chance of unnecessary worry or tiny chance of truly important condition being missed). Plus, the 20 week scan can miss important problems, it's not infallible, either!

I chose to have the 20 week scans myself... but I fully understand people who don't.

I only had a scan so that I would be more or less sure I could have a waterbirth (in my own mind, my midwife was fine about it). I ended up having 4 and in the end ds was fine. I wish I'd not bothered and I've told my dh that I wouldn't bother now I know I can push a baby out. So it's not the most scientific or reasoned argument in the world but that is what I am doing.

I felt very protective over my baby and gave the scanner loads when she only had one thing to check at my final scan and she insisted on trying to measure everything. I was saying "look I'm just not interested in populating your database, stop annoying my child" and she was ignoring me. Really bloomin annoying.

It felt like visiting my baby. We have a video even. I think it was particularly nice for my DH who doesn't get the thrill of feeling bub move and kick etc. I was amazed by what they could look at etc, but didn't really even have a moment of stress wondering if they would find something wrong.

I have friend's whose baby was born with cleft palate and lip (which of course is not a major prob and easily corrected) and I am amazed that their scan either didn't pick it up or the Dr didn't tell them. I think it would have been better for them to be prepared rather than experience the shock of it after a long difficult labour after which the mum was in intensive care and had to have blood transfusions etc.

One thing they can spot at the 20 week scan is a low-lying placenta which if it turns out to be placenta praevia (where the placenta lies across the cervix) has serious implications for you and the baby (e.g. for complete placenta praevia, the baby will be delivered by c/s). I'm no expert on this subject so it may be worth you doing a bit of research on this to help you come to a decision, or maybe someone else who knows a bit more will post.

Personally, I was glad to have a chance to see our baby, it was really amazing.

I went to great lengths to make sure I got the 20wk scan. I think it's very important.... they check the chambers of the heart, look for bowel obstructions, fluid build-ups and any general abnormalities. It can also detect things like club feet.

It's a personal choice, but I'd say if it's your only scan then you should go to get the baby's measurements checked.

I think its up to you. I know people who have had the scans- had problems picked up (like talipes)- and then been given totally frightening negative views- like "oh we must do an amnio to check its not a chromosome abnormality"- I know one friend came under a lot of pressure when she refused further tests- anyway her son did "just" have talipes (certianly no chromosome abnormalities).

if you do have a scan it is worth thinking about what you will do if there are problems revealed. Options include nothing, further more detailed scans, or more invasive checks (eg amnio).

Of course in the vast majority of cases no problems are revealed and it is effectively a time to "meet" your baby.

I would choose whichever option you felt was right for you.

I loved having both my scans and like aussiesim said, dh loved them too, he feels like he has 'met' the baby already. I didn't have any other tests in my pregnancy however, blood tests or amnio or whatever, but not sure what I would have done if they had found anything wrong on the scan.

I think its your choice really. My scan was very reasurring as my pregnancy wasnt planned and i had been out socialising, drinking etc before i knew about it. For those first weeks i was beside myself worrying that i had harmed the baby but i did feel a lot better after the scan. (plus i couldnt wait to see my little one)

as with everything it is your choice - although I found it very valuable - given that my 20 weeks scan detected my daughter's heart defect. We were then sent for fetal cardiac scans to detect what the problem was exactly. I chose not to have an amnio (her heart defect is common in children with down's syndrome) - she was going to be born no matter what. As Jimjams said - it is important to work out what you will do with the information. We had decided no amnios or invasive testing and that our baby would be born - before we had the fetal cardiac scan. After what seemed not so nice news - we were also able to find out the gender of the baby - some good news.

It was good to have everything in place ( specialists, referrals etc) for her birth and afterwards - rather than the shock of finding out at a much later date. It meant she could have the surgery she needed whilst quite young ( 8 weeks) and now has the all clear regarding her heart.

However - it is up to you......

Eidsvold, does that mean if you had not had the scan it wasn't something that would have been obvious or easily detectable and they may have missed it?

A good friend of mine had a problem detected in her DS at the 20 week scan that meant he needed surgery immediately after birth.
Had it not been picked up then he would most certainly have died.
It is stories like that that made me want to have my 20 week scans ...

toddlerbob - we are very lucky - the hopsital where dd was born has a protocol for children born with Down's syndrome - they are automatically sent for an ecg and echocardiogram - simply because 40% of children with Down's syndrome have some sort of heart defect/condition. I have heard/read stories of chidlren born with DS whose heart defects were not picked up prior or straight after birth - simply as the hospital did not have the protocol and it was not as obvious in its effects as dd's.

If the hopsital did not have that protocol then it may have been missed for a little while - depending on the staff at the birth - however we had a paediatrician present at the birth and she was immediately taken to ICU and care began - we had also had a tour of SCBU and met the staff so it was not a scary place for us.

For us - it meant we could do a lot of reading and research into both her heart defect and Down's syndrome in order to prepare ourselves for her birth and beyond. It also meant I was monitored a little more closely - lucky me - I had a number of scans in the end and it was great - I really loved seeing dd.

IT is interesting - in the UK you have at least 2 scans - in Australia most women only have the 20 week scan - unless they are high risk.

I loved being able to see dd sucking her thumb or blowing bubbles, it just made it all the mroe real to me.

Having said all that - blossom girl it really is your choice.

Apparently the baby can hear the high pitched noise of the ultrasound waves which we cannot, and this sort of makes you think about the unknown quantities involved in ultrasound. I had the 20 week scan and enjoyed it but was conscious that it probably wasn't that much fun for the subject... even if nothing sinister. A friend who had a number of monitoring scans due to existing medical prob. began to opt out because she felt uncomfortable with the whole thing. It's not necessarily as friendly a process as we'd like to believe (she says darkly).

Like eidsvold I chose a scan for preparation. I felt that if a scan showed my child was likely to have say DS then we would be prepared (and perhaps more importantly so would family) and the birth could still be a celebration.

Of course its not that simple though as there are many things that don't show on scans.

My friend's DD's kidney problem was picked up on a scan. Operated on at 8 weeks and now she has 2 healthy kidney, I don't hink it would have been picked up easily without the scan. BUT its was a physical abnormality that doesn't always cause problems so she may have ended up with unecessary surgery iyswim. I think it gave my friend a very difficult decision to make. In her case the surgery was fine and her dd's kidneys are fine so I guess it all worked out OK.

my dd was also very unco operative during scans - in fact my 20 week scan was done twice as she refused to roll over and let them check out her stomach, lungs and heart. However I felt weighing up the options it was one of the least invasive tests one could have.

I think if you do go, it is essential to have someone with you; it isn't just a look at the baby and it may confront you with information you weren't prepared for.

I have had four scans over two pregnancies, and found them nerve-wracking and utterly amazing. Seeing my first daughter on screen for the first time was actually more amazing than seeing her in the flesh. I was also completely terrified.

And I just said firmly, at the beginning, that I didn't want to know the sex. For all I know it was completely obvious (dd2's second scan was so clear you could see the shape of her nose!) but me, I wanted dippyhippy ignorance

I've always gone for my "20 week" scans - had lots with DS1 (No 2 child) as I had a low-lying placenta so positioning of that needed to be check - plus DS1 was breech for a long time - still needed scanning at 38/39 weeks.

Also I wanted the scans done because I had planned on giving birth at our local Midwife-Led unit which I wouldn't be able to do if there were any problems with the baby.

It is very kind of everyone to share what this scan means to them, its really really helpful to have so many new points of view and experiences to think about. I certainly feel better equiped to make a gentle, strong decision now v. my original more threatened response. More relaxed about still deciding so thank you all very much.

I guess this is going to be a very familiar tug at the heart..deciding what is best for the little person.

Definitely one very good thing about even wondering about this scan is that its really made me aware of my own internal debate about medicine, how to gleen what is right for you and how not to be led into any unneccesarry intervention. When it comes to me its already settled (eg don't like painkillers but will have a smear, or even pee on a stick to find out im pregnant!) but now the feelings are being renegotiated. Ah and they're not even born yet.

I think there should certainly be choice on having ultrasounds. It is the right choice for some people but not for all IMO. There is a standard ante-natal process and sometimes it is hard to take control and make your own choices if these are not the establishment norm.

An ultrasound is not guarenteed to be 100% safe and risk free - I have read that some research that suggests it has adverse effects on the foetus.

My personal view is that there is too much testing done as routine nowadays. I refused the triple test and am glad that I did - if I were to go back in time with the extra knowledge I have now I would probably have refused ultrasound too, as I would have been prepared to take on any disabilities in my baby.

Blossomgirl, I know what you mean about not needing the 'sneak preview', and I have been tactless and upset people on here recently by emphasising the diagnostic purposes of these scans rather than the emotional opportunity!

In her first post on this thread, JimJams could have been talking about me. DS's 'club foot' (talipes) was discovered at the scan (and prompted the same statistically unlikely scare story!). The result of this was that I was able to do lots of research, find a parents support forum and endless re-assurance, and then get used to the fact before DS was born. This meant that his small foot with 4 toes was not at all an issue in those first magical minutes. I would have found the subsequent meetings with consultant etc much harder to deal with if I was encountering it for the first time in post-natal emotional turmoil!. The scan hadn't diagnosed the full extent of the problem, but I was confident and prepared, I had already met the orthpeadic consultant, and they were geared up and ready to be showing us how to do little stretches within hours of his birth.

It is true though, that most of the measuring that goes on in research or teaching hospitals is to contribute to research studies and not for the immediate benefit of your baby. But who knows - it could help others in the future.

blossom girl - don't mean to be negative - I had all sorts of plans - no epidural, no caesar, no amnio and so on. Okay - I did get my way for some - no amnio, no triple test, but my dd was born by caesar and it had to be an epidural not a general - so all my wonderful birth plans were thrown out the window - having said that - I was just glad she was born without further distress and drama. So I guess what I am saying is that it is important to stand your ground on some things but on others - it has to be down to what is best for the baby... there may be plenty who disagree with me.. but for me - I had to put aside my personal desires and put her needs before mine - good practice for parenthood I guess.......

I also think it is very important to be informed and to listen to advice from medical staff but to then go away and do some independent reading and research and then make the best decision for yourself.

I found surprisingly speaking from an informed position led to medical staff actually listening and accepting my views on things that we disagreed on.

I'll second the post about placenta praevia. They could see that my placenta was low-lying at the 20 week scan and booked me in for another scan at 32. Sure enough I did have pp and had to be hospitalised for rest of pg as the condition is potentially life-threatening for mother and baby. The only warning of this that you'd have if you didn't have the scan is incontrollable haemorraging (sp?) with no warning. It IS rare but I had it and so did a number of other mumsnetters.

I had 20 week scans and amnios for both my pregnancies and had there been a bad result (chromosomal abnormality was suspected for dd2, edwards syndrome which is v serious) then I would have terminated the pregnancy. but no one can make you have the tests/scans so it's up to each individual what they decide to do.

I had loads of scans with ds as I have diabetes & they pretty much insist on heavy duty monitoring. I found it quite nerve wracking (women with diabetes have a greater chance of having a baby with a congenital abnormality), but also incredible. I found this today which although not relevant to this thread still gives food for thought.