pains in pelvis - is this normal?

[marsup]

I'm at 36 weeks +2 and until yesterday amazingly I have had no backache. Yesterday I suddenly got sharp pains in my lower back (pelvis) and groin that got worse when I walked. Today it is not so sharp but there is still a pain in my groin (left side) when I walk and an ache in my lower back. Are these just normal pregnancy sensations that I've been lucky not to get until now, or should I be worried? Advice please!

Right MincePie I will see how it goes. Definitely have problems turning over in bed and had same (only not as early) last pg. I feel as though it is locked up but its mreo that if I move it that way I have pain and so I turn over on my front IYSWIM. I have some pain at front but generally when I have been busy (eg out and about with DS) and maybe overdo a movement and then have a couple of minutes of intense pain in groin. I mentioned it to midwife at booking in appt because it had already started and I think I will say something when I see her again early Jan.

I think I might get a pillow out marsup because it helped last time - am only 18 weeks though. Think you might be right but don't think my symptoms are too bad yet.

Any weightbearing activity will make it worse. The pelvis supports 2/3 of the body's weight when you are standing/sitting. So it is important not to be on your feet for too long. Its also why swimming is such an excellent exercise, though as Marsup says NOT breaststroke. You want to avoid 'hip abduction' that is when your hips are at any angles other straight ahead iykwim. Thats why turning over is always so bad as you naturally move with your legs apart and transfer weight from one hip to the other.

Mince pie.... is it you????? did you change your nickname for something more seasonal

Bozza - TAKE IT EASY ... it won't improve
Pupuce - another SPD sufferer

Yes its me pupuce, I have succumbed to Christmas fever

Agree with pupuce Bozza ... it won't improve
I had SPD when pg with DS from 30 weeks on ... in the UK ... had no sympathy from my doctor who said pretty much the same as Deeno's obstetritian ...
At the time I put a lot of it down to baby weight ...
This time ... at 17 weeks I felt the familiar twinges and it has got steadily worse even though I have done everything in my power to try to make it better. I talked to my m/w about it straight away ... Apparently here in NZ it is seen as an important issue ... so at 21 weeks she referred me to a physio ... who I have seen twice now.
TBH the last time I saw the physio she, although very sympathetic, told me there was nothing more she could do
She gave me tubigrip to wear around my tummy which definitely helps ... and a pubic belt (I think you call them pelvic belts) which helps the SPD but gives my other discomforts like pressing on my bladder!!
She told me that the ONLY exercise I could do was swimming ... I must NOT walk too far, even if I think I can ... and there have been times when I have made the mistake of thinking that I would be ok for an hour in the shops and then ended up on the sofa for the rest of the day in tears ....
I now (at 34 weeks) can move around the house (we don't have stair thank god) ... walk from the house to the car ... When I get to my destination I sit ... DH does the shopping pretty much now ...
I can't do any strenuous housework - hoovering is out, as is cleaning floors and bathroom (there is a plus side )... can't pick up toys from the floor ... and wake up continuously through the night whenever I turn over as my 'nunney' screams at me!!! ... and I just spend time between the computer and the sofa ... but I can still cook ...
What I am saying is that I have got to this point without over doing it at all ... like I say I went out of my way to be careful ... SO ... take it easy and don't expect it to go away ...
Many commiserations to fellow SPD sufferers ... the light at the end of the tunnel for me is that it will go after the baby is born (unlike poor Pie whose recovery is taking longer than she would like!!)

It didn't occur to me until I got into bed last night that it was you Pie - now Mince Pie. No wonder you sounded so knowledgeable. I feel a bit of a fraud because it really doesn't sound that bad compared with what you are all talking about. I am lucky in that I have an office job so not strenuous. I have given up hoovering the stairs (DH insisted after incident during last pregnancy) but thats about it. I will heed your warnings though and try and take it easy. Actually one thing I have really been struggling with is getting DS (2.10) into supermarket trolley so I think no more supermarket trips for him and me. Will definitely consult midwife - she mentioned pelvic belt last time.

Duh I didn't get the Pie-Mince Pie connection either! Very festive.

M/Pie, you mentioned suitable positions for labour with SPD. Am I right in thinking kneeling supported against something or on all fours are good solutions? I might accidentally be tempted to go for legs-apart positions as it doesn't actually hurt if I separate my legs a bit (except at night); my pain is all in the groin and the back of the pelvis, and mostly after walking/standing.

Bozza, mine isn't very bad either but I'd rather be extra-paranoid now and keep it that way. The fem-belt (pelvic brace?)-thing does help.

Bozza, the most important thing I learnt was never to push through the pain. If you are doing something and pain begins STOP. Other then that there really isn't anything you can do.

Marsup, you basically want to do everything to AVOID pushing whilst on your back with your legs wide open. Depending on how bad you are you can measure your 'safe gap' this is how far apart you can spread your legs before it gets painful. You measure from knee to knee.

Anecdotally SPD suffers tend to labour well in water as the water carries the burden usually placed on the pelvis. I ended up sort of floating in the water. All fours is good, supported kneeling, on your knees up against a pile of pillows or the head of the bed. Whatever it takes to allow the most amount of room for your pelvis to open without you 'forcing' it iykwim. Lying on your back won't really do this. To be honest though the pain of labour makes you forget about the SPD. And I've heard this from others. You are focused, your endorphins are flowing...you're just in a different mind set. There is a good NCT leaflet on birth positions, I'll have a look later for it, baby is grunting I thinking she has pooped!!

Hi Marsup, I'm at 39 wks, and as of yesterday, have felt extreme pain when I stand up - and when I walk - but it is smack in the middle - right on top of my vagina, essentially. I had this sort of pain before and when I asked my doc about it, he said it's normal - because no more muscles to help me out this time around or something like that. Surprisingly, the pain is gone today when I stand up or walk around. I asked a friend about it, and she said that the baby probably just moved to a different position.

What does SPD stand for?

tinyfeet, SPD is symphisis pubis dysfunction, and the symphisis pubis is the bit where two parts of your pelvis meet at the front - sounds like that is where it was hurting you. THere is a link somewhere further down this thread with a diagram. Because of the hormone relaxin (normal in preparation for childbirth) some women have pain because the pelvis separates too much, thus SPD. What you have could be that, but if it goes away I guess it could just be the baby's head pressing...? Pie will have a better idea than me.

Ooh I feel almost like an expert now! mine isn't actually too bad except that I really miss walking and I wake up every hour during the night with a sore pelvis...

If the pain is coming and going tinyfeet, it might not be SPD, as there really is no coming and going with that...just alot of coming er...didn't mean to sound rude. So could well be baby moving as your 39 weeks.

The thing to remember I think though is that the symphisis pubis has to widen for the baby to come out, thats a natural part of childbirth. The dysfunction part comes when the degree and timing is such that it starts to debilitate you and cause you a constant pain. Thats why there are so many degrees of SPD as you can get it late in the pregnancy and find the last few weeks difficult and painful or you can end up in a wheelchair at 22 weeks...its such a vast range of a dysfunction of a 'normal' process/

I was reading quite recently marsup about theories of what causes SPD. Interestingly (well to me!) there has been a recent study where women with NO SPD symptoms were injected with relaxin to raise their levels...and they still DIDN'T get SPD. There was a study which found that high levels of relaxin caused SPD but it was based on guinea pigs, not women! Its also been found that the degree of separation of the symphisis pubis doesn't correlate to having SPD pain...its a bit of a mystery. It is thought that only a small group of SPD sufferers are affected by hormones alone, and its these women that tend to spontaneously get better after birth, but the majority it will take some time and possibly physio.

I can't find that NCT leaflet now!

But there are similar things here .

Thanks, Marsup. Sounds like what it is. The pain was so bad yesterday that I could barely walk - but it is so strange that it is gone today. I'm still working, but I could see if the pain got really bad, that I wouldn't be able to make it into the office. I don't have any backache at all though - I wonder if you're having sciatica? I don't know how to spell it - but if your pain is on one side??

Does SPD only affect pregnant women who are not first-timers? My doc said something about the fact that first-time mums have good strong muscles or something, but that they go away after you've had at least 1 baby.

no evidence of that tinyfeet, several mumsnetters had it with their first, it does tend to get worse with each pregnacy though

Hello everyone ... my midwife said that most symptoms you get with your first come earlier with each pregnancy .... hence my only having SPD at 30+ weeks with DS but it starting at 17 weeks in this pregnancy ...
Hmmmmm... will I have any more children?? I doubt it!
I just remembered something that the physio told me that does work ....
When you get out of bed or get out of the car or do something like that that you know will hurt you, you should clench your pelvic floor muscles and keep them clenched as you move ...
This is because the pelvic floors compensate for the dysfunction of your ligaments ... and I find it does help ... not least because you have to concentrate on clenching
If I am really on it I even try to clench my pelvic floors when I turn over at night ... but obviously I can't always do that .....
I was awake every hour last night .....

Thanks for the link again, M'Pie. So guinea pigs can get it too, poor things! I thought only humans were this badly put together. I have a vague memory of reading somewhere (website???) that dancers and people who had done a lot of stretching often got SPD in pregnancy. Does this go with your experience? I am not a dancer or athlete but I used to jog 3 times a week and do quite a lot of stretching before and afterwards; I was not particularly supple anywhere except in the pelvic area (you know those stretches where you rest your cheek flat on you knee with your leg straight out in front of you? and lotus position, that sort of thing? - well, I'll think twice about doing much of that from now on!).

Ghosty, I have also heard that it tends to come earlier with a second pregnancy. Bad news for me, as this is my first. I like the bit about clenching pelvic floor muscles though. And maybe tinyfeet's point about muscles is true in that if your abdominal wall is strong it must help a bit...mustn't it? ie to support spine, etc?

If anyone needs some very good advice about SPD then I can sugest the following link.

www.spd-uk.org/spdinfobooklet.pdf

It is a booklet from the British SPD Support Group and gives indepth information.

I my self have suffered with SPD since 20 weeks and I am now 38 weeks. Good luck everybody.