Give up? Even though he's 3 and 4 months? (long rant - sorry!)

[Lovage]

We've been having our first go at potty training DS who is 3 and 4 months. We went cold turkey straight into pants, and it's been nearly a month now.

If you can get him to sit on the potty/loo every couple of hours, he will usually do a pee. Nursery manage this fine (2 days a week) and he'll have maybe one accident a day (usually only pee). We, however, cannot get him to sit on the potty unless we make it an ultimatum for something else he wants to do, or apply serious pressure/bribing. This ends up with a horrible constant nag/battle, and he's started waking at nights very distressed, which I'm sure is connected (he's usually a very good sleeper, nowadays).

Today I tried just gently suggesting every now and then, result - he peed his pants 4 times + one absolutely disgusting poo (trousers, feet, between toes, floor, etc.) (sorry, TMI, I'm wound up!)

We have tried the following things, none of which work, or work sometimes, but not after a bit:

• special treats while he's sitting on potty (playing on Daddy's iPod Touch mostly)
• bribing (stickers and sticker chart useless, toy cars worked for a bit. Don't want to bribe with food/chocolate)
• saying we're going to pee, does he want to?
• putting cornflake in loo, Daddy showing how to pee standing up, try to hit the cornflake (wouldn't try)
• getting soluble Vit C tablet to put in potty (so it fizzes when you pee on it) - wouldn't try
• loads and loads of praise, talk about what big boys do, mention of children he knows who are potty trained

I don't think I can bear this anymore. Also, we're going away for Christmas and he can't pee all over relations houses (we have hard floors mostly, so not too bad). I'm wondering whether to put him back in nappies (which he probably will resist, because he likes his pants, and had got to really disliking nappy changes) or try pull-ups. But I can see he'd just pee in them (also, we use cloth nappies and I don't want to have to buy a load of disposables/lay out a load of money on washable pull-ups).

I think he's good at nursery because of the peer pressure that they all troupe to the loo every couple of hours. Also I think he's more obedient there than at home. But I can't send him to nursery all the time (I wish!).

What would you do? Persevere (need to short term as DP is going away for 3 days, so making any change seems like a bad plan. Not that it's good at the moment, especially with the night waking)? Try pull-ups? Put him back in nappies? Do a mixture? Give him up for adoption?

My DS went into pants in October 2008 (aged 3.8) and was still having accidents until this summer. Agree with others who have said that school has sorted him out (no accidents at all since then - touch wood).

In my DSs case I think he just couldn't be bothered to think about it.

Its clear that you've put a lot of thought and effort into it and in the longer term you have no choice but to persevere but maybe accept that it is probably going to take a long time and if it helps to put him back into nappies for a while (and if he doesn't like it then it may spur him on to use the potty) then I don't see a big problem with it.

Try not to get discouraged - as others have said he will get there eventually.

Also - if your putting loads of effort into it and still having to clean up accidents why not try taking the pressure off him (and you) and just allow access to the potty without mentioning it or making him sit. Sure - you'll probably still have accidents but a different approach may pay dividends.

Err GYF, how exactly does a parent verbally and physically abusing their very small child in that manner help to get them potty trained?

Lovage, I think the thing that really helped DS1 in the end was the teachers actually telling him that it was toilet time every 30mins, whereas I had previously taken the gentle reminder approach. (Obviously this works better for nursery/teaching staff because of their position of authority, and clearly as parents we have none )

I had toyed with the idea of setting a timer at home and coming to some sort of arrangement with DS, that I would reward him for using the toilet at those times, whether he performed or not IYSWIM!

I also make sure that there are plenty of pants and trousers (rolled up together) in his drawer, so he can go and change himself when necessary. He also has toddler wipes and liquid soap of his choosing in the bathroom to clean up those more messy incidents.

What I'm saying is that I encourage him to sort himself out as much as possible these days as I'm fed of doing it....and he needs to take some responsibility.

It doesn't seem so bad (except for the washing pile) if it isn't you that has to do all the changing several times a day.

Erm...can I be the first peorson to tell GYF to fuck right off

Washerauras

You're right. Not even trying to potty train your child until months after his third birthday, and then giving up because you can't be bothered is perfectly reasonable parenting.

Whilst exercising parental authority to help your offspring join the world of normal little boys and girls is wrong.

I accept that some children can be slower than others. And that three year olds can often still have accidents, which can be wearying.

But sometimes people need telling. The OP has admitted to not even trying to PT until 12-18 months after they should reasonably have started. And they admit that there son is able to functionally use the lavatory when in the care of (relative) strangers.

Thus, they need some sort of practical help on how to get their kid to go when they are told to - not to arrest the poor little sods development further. We have favoured a more "traditional" approach with our children, which generally works. I have shared that wisdom, you can take it or leave it as you wish.

After having many similar frustrating weeks, the following worked for us: chocolate buttons ( dd thinks they actually help her push it out), changing the toilet seat (found one with sea shells, she calls it Nemo seat) and change of scenery. She is much better behaved when we travel as she clearly has her routine at home.

Oh give it up GYF, so bullying your children helped you to get them to perform as you wanted them to. You must feel so proud of yourself .

Personally, I prefer not to physically force my children to anything unless they are in immediate danger, and certainly don't believe that 'telling them off' makes any difference to them staying dry earlier, as children don't generally wee themselves on purpose just to spite their parents.

I have experienced the same problems as the OP with one of my sons and it isn't anything to do with laziness, it is about treating your children as individuals and respecting the fact that they all develop at different paces.

It is not uncommon at all for boys especially not to be toilet trained until much later (school age). Do you honestly believe that whether a child is dry at 3yo or not is an accurate measure of how good someone is at parenting?

I think you should step back and reassess your own parenting style before coming on here and criticising others; just because in the past people used a particular 'traditional' approach doesn't mean that it is right.

At the moment I feel a little for any children that have been potty trained by you tbh.

Lovage - I have just remembered; I think I still have a copy of the 'Poo goes home to Pooland' colouring book that I could email you if you would like it. It definitely helped to encourage DS1 to send his poos home to pooland the correct way, and it is quite amusing. You can mail me on washersaurus @ yahoo dot co dot uk (I think that is right)

Washersaurus, I've heard good things about that book too, would you mind emailing it to me too?
Was just about to start a PT thread, but this seems to have answered most of my questions

Sympathies to OP - it can be SO stressful can't it.

My only piece of advice is to do it when they're ready - it is SO much easier.

Ds1 - tried at 2.2, no luck, was hideously stressful for all of us, and after a lot of anxiety and stress we put him back into nappies. Tried again at 2.10, more success, he would 'wee on demand' but had no concept of NOT weeing in pants etc. Had regular accidents (wee and poo) until age 4 or so (though not usually at playgroup, usually at home), had one or two accidents at school. Not dry at night until age 5, and not reliable till age 7.

Dd - trained at 2.11 - she got weeing in 1 day, poos took another 2-3 months. She had a long spell where her pants would be 'damp' but not wet. Dry at night at 6.

Ds2 - trained at 3.5 - got it in 10 minutes!!! We'd left it longer as he has a speech delay, and it just didn't seem possible sooner. However, he was a dream - we told him what to do and he did it, taking responsibility for it himself - no reminders - he just took himself to the potty when necesssary, did his own pants and trousers. Dry day and night at 3.5, and poos sorted too. By far the easiest of them.

So I would say wait until they're ready, put him in pull ups, keep letting him try the potty, but take the stress out of it for him and you.

we gave up! DS just WOULD NOT be potty trained. Until one week when he was 3yrs 9m I suddenly realised he hadn't had wet trousers ALL WEEK LONG.

he did it when he was ready - and he missed potty entirely and went straight onto the toilet.

Could anyone who wants a copy of the 'Poo' book, please email me at my yahoo address as I can't CAT, and I'll send it to you as soon as I locate the file on my pc

Glad I found this thread. Ds is 3.3 yrs and soooo far from trained its not funny. Same as op, massive resistance, bribery does not work, and then screaming crying if ask him to go on the loo/potty. Am in dilemma as to whether I should try again or give up and wait.

I actually can see where GrumpyYoungFogey
is coming from, although I do not agree with bullying small children. There are better ways of encouraging good behaviour. Is this a battle of the wills or immaturity of bladder control.

It sounds to me as if this child has perfectly good bladder and bowel control, but is using toilet training as a weapon. Prehaps a step back from the situation and not making a fuss about wet pants is best. Change the child with no fuss if they have an accident and praise sucess.

It is child abuse to give up toilet training a neurologically typical child before school age. Some children find potty training easier than others. You don't stop talking to a child who finds learning to speak hard. You get professional help.

Prehaps the OP can get advice from her health visitor or surestart centre.

Ok, I'm putting him in underpants as soon as he gets in from school! This is the first day of the fourth attempt at potty training!