Almost 4 year old not potty trained - what else can I do?

[aliceisland]

My almost 4yo wets himself several times a day. Absolutely no problem with poos, perfectly trained there.

The only way to avoid this is to tell him to go to the toilet, to stand over him while he wees, At least once an hour, more ideally. When left to his own devices, he will wet himself. He can nearly always wee on command though. We just can’t physically get him to a toilet every 40 mins or so, and I also think he should be able to know himself. He does sometimes say ‘I need a wee’ but usually after he’s done most of it in his pants.

I read all the comments about how only lazy parents haven’t potty trained their children by school and once I would have agreed but I have worked SO hard on this - we’ve tried sticker charts, rewards, telling him off, taking him constantly, been to the GP (no UTI, and no interest in helping us until he’s older). At home we try no pants time, we’ve tried back to pull-ups for a bit and leave it a few weeks. I cannot think of a single thing we haven’t tried.

any advice?? I really don’t want him going to school still needing pull-ups.

He needs to drink more.

If you've cut down how much he is drinking the urine is more concentrated and can irritate the bladder.

Also the more he is drinking the more practice he gets.

He may need to increase his fluid intake.

Hmm not sure. We’ve experimented with both and he definitely has way, way more accidents when he has a lot to drink.

Has he had any allergies? I have found that when my dc have dairy they have wee accidents. We can exclude dairy and have no accidents for 2 years. Introduce it at the lowest level and a week later they wet themselves. My dd described it as just a sudden spasm. I looked it up and it is linked.

Consistency in method/routine and have home sit down to wee until he's dry. When they stand they are prone to not emptying their bladder which can cause problems. Have you been given advice on how to empty like blowing bubbles? My son's urologists told me to measure improvements over months/years not weeks.

I think people overcomplicate the process.

Get rid of nappies and pull ups during the day. Have a week off work / nursery, and have them walk around bottomless in the house with a potty in close proximity.

I potty trained my daughter at 24 months, it literally took a week.

You don’t think I’ve tried that? Many many times?

Honestly, of course it’s easy when it works.

I think the pull ups are probably not helping.

Like you say, he can't go to school in pull-ups and he can't go to school with a naked bum either.

I would just get a really big supply of pants and make him responsible for putting them in the washing machine, wiping himself with a wet flannel and putting on a new pair of pants every time he wets himself.

If it isn't medical, you need to make it annoying for him to have to stop playing to clean himself up if he wets his pants.

I mean pull ups aren’t part of the day-to-day. It’s something we tried six months ago when people suggested he just ‘wasn’t ready’ but he doesn’t wear them now.

We do make him change himself, but he just does it quite happily so doesn’t seem an incentive to make him bothered about stopping.

Does he start school in September?

It sounds like you are doing everything right.

Why it isn't working for him, none of us can say.

It could be developmental - he might not be getting strong enough signals from his brain that say 'go to the loo now' - these happen when the bladder is stretched, which is why people are suggesting more fluid, but it may not be that issue.

It could be a behavioural issue, that he finds the process of going to the toilet difficult or annoying or uncomfortable for some reason.

I can feel your stress and worry about attending school like this, but there have always been children in reception who have had struggles with toileting - despite what people say it existed in the past as well, maybe not as frequently.

I always come from the view that young children do the best that they can to please the people they love. This is a survival mechanism if nothing else.

If he's struggling, he is likely not to be able to understand why, but will definitely be able to feel disapproval/shame at his 'failure'.

I think it's important to acknowledge he's finding this tough - whatever the reason and keep going with what you're doing - sometimes it just 'clicks' for them.

If your school does a home visit I would definitely mention this to the teacher so they are aware and be clear of all the things you have tried.

Do you have contact with a Health visitor - even if they've not been helpful in the past, I think if you go back to them again and state your worries about school start, they will take it more seriously.

Thanks, this is really helpful. I think at the heart of my worry is not knowing if it’s behavioural or developmental as that makes it hard to know which approach to take to address it. But you make a good point about him wanting to please - I think he does.

What do you actually do during no pants time, when you've tried that? I'm asking because people often recommend that on forums but I'm not totally convinced it just makes them use the toilet because of some kind of nakedness magic. The Oh Crap! method is kind of marmite on here, but if you follow that, the rationale for the no pants is that it makes it easier for you, the parent, to work out when your child needs a wee, and then get them on the toilet straight away. So if you have not tried this (you probably have), you could do no pants but also watch him like a hawk literally every second, and as soon as he looks fidgety, get him straight on the toilet (or a potty if it's quicker). The idea would be that you notice first what his body's signals are, and point them out to him, and then he starts to recognise them because he associates the feeling of needing a wee with you telling him to get on the toilet right now. Whereas if you just tell him at regular intervals, he doesn't need to learn to recognise the sensations.

For what it's worth, OP, where I live children start compulsory school when they are between 2y9m and 3y8 months old.

Until a few years ago the first three years of school were not compulsory and schools would typically refuse to take any child who wasn't potty trained.

Now, every September they must accept all children who have turned or are due to turn 3 in the current calendar year. Inevitably, this means some of them are not quite potty trained.

The message from schools is that they will change children if they need to (and accidents do happen, even for children who have been potty trained for a while) but if a child is not potty trained at all they generally learn very quickly once they are in a school environment and the other children are using the toilet independently.

It sounds like your son is most of the way there, he already knows what to do and if he is in school he will have the motivation to do it because he won't want to be the boy who wets himself all the time. Social pressure is a very powerful thing.

That's assuming there isn't a medical reason for it.

Have you tried using those targets in the loo? Just something to bring the fun into is he just concentrating? Could you set a fun alarm on Alexa?

I was wondering how the OP got on? I have a just turned 4 year old and it all sounds a bit similar!