How do you know when they are ready?

[Summermeadowflowers]

DS is 2 years and 10 months. Most of his friends are toilet trained and I have to admit I’m feeling pressured.

But he just doesn’t seem remotely interested. He won’t tell you if he needs to see or poo and while he’ll sit on the potty for ages he never does anything on it. Tried putting him in pants and that didn’t work!

I am a bit worried because it feels like without his cooperation well never get anywhere and he isn’t famed for being cooperative!

It sounds a bit like you've already given up.

Hindsight is a fine thing, but this is why teaching an eager to please nearly 2yr old is easier than an opinionated nearly 3yr old.

Maybe do a reset. Back to nappies for a few weeks then start again with lots of stories about potties before hand and make a big deal about "no more nappies when we wake up in the morning cos you're a BIG BOY" and then do it. No more nappies. Stay in the house for a full weekend. You'll be amazing at the progress. The Oh Crap book seems to think there will be a physical sign they'll show when they're about to pee. Tbh I never spotted it with my two but we got on with it anyway.

Well, we did try without nappies but it just didn’t seem to click, he was just treating them as a nappy and didn’t seem bothered about feeling wet.

it isn’t that I’ve given up, more that I’m worried that starting and having to stop could be detrimental. I mean - I just said to him after swimming something about how well he was using his listening ears and would he be able to use the toilet? He said ‘flower! Combine!’ So that doesn’t give much away!

And I’m not totally sure ds has ever been eager to please 😂

I just waited until they said "I don't want to wear a nappy" and said "OK. There's the loo and here are some pants." You have to hold your nerve-you will have eyebrows raised at you. But oh my word, it made life easy!

They pee on the floor a lot to begin with! My DC2 trained themselves early by watching DC1, but DC1 (also an opinionated/stubborn one!) definitely did a lot of pees on the floor. They were ‘trained’ about 26 months as I didn’t want DC2 getting mobile crawling and having to deal with potties and pee on the floor. Honestly potty training is a proper pain compared to nappies, especially out and about, but it’s a short period and you have to hold your nerve. By day 3 of no pants and pees and poos go in the potty even the stubborn ones are getting it (even if the adults are silently tearing their hair out and buying shares in floor cleaner!) It doesn’t matter if they’re focused on the chocolate - that’s OK. It’s a means to an end.

One of the big problems is I’m not sure ds has fully got the concept of bribery! So if you say ‘wee on the potty and you can have a chocolate’ he just goes on about chocolate without seeming to understand that he has to do something to get the chocolate! Of course, he could understand full well and not be letting on

I think he might be more likely to use the actual toilet but again it’s getting him to wee on it, he doesn’t wee a lot during the day so it isn’t a regular thing.

Ah, a camel! They are trickier. Does he have drinks he prefers but that you don’t give often (juice etc) - that can help get started.

As to the bribery, it’s hard to say without being there but that’s probably normal? Going on about the chocolate but without connecting it to begin with, I mean. But if you don’t get any chocolate until the first wee, they catch on eventually. (Unless there is more cognitively going on, but at this age it’s really hard to say.)

You could get you and dad involved on the modelling to help, perhaps - look, Daddy has a wee in the toilet and now he gets a chocolate…

I say that about him being a camel. It’s all pretty tricky at the moment, I’m constantly doubting myself.

I just left my child to I can't say I felt pressured it is not if I could have waved a magic wand so they went when they were ready too

So if he doesn’t wee a lot during the day that means he has excellent muscle control and so long as his speech is decent and he can usually follow basic instructions then he is more than ready. Most kids are between 2-2.5. By leaving it I think you’re setting yourself up to make it even harder still as 3YOs can be really stubborn and the kids that just train themselves by deciding they want pants one morning are incredibly rare so chances are that’ll never happen.

If you’re not keen on Oh Crap and the nudity method, and given it’s aimed at toddlers 20-30 months which you’re outside now, I’d instead keep it simple- plan to stay home for 3 days, put him in pants (no trousers unless it’s freezing to minimise laundry), pump him full of fluids (squash, ice lollies, juice, you name it) and have him sit on the potty for 5 minutes every 20 minutes (to get him to sit do books, toys, TV if you have to) and whenever anything is produced he gets a smartie or small sweet.

I think this is where my confidence is low as part of me feels if he isn’t developmentally ready, whether emotionally or physically it is pointless pushing it, but I’m also worried that if I don’t ‘force’ it (if you see what I mean) he’ll end up being way past the age he ‘should’ be in nappies.

@InTheRainOnATrain i don’t think it’s related to control, he just doesn’t drink very much. He isn’t hugely interested in TV or anything - I think if I enforced your suggestion he’d sit for five minutes, I’d take him off, he’d have a tantrum, sit again … arghh.

I read that book and just didn't understand how that approach is compatible with me having a job or him going to nursery. There literally isn't a time window longer than two days when he could go around pantless.

What do you even mean by developmentally ready? You just take them to the potty/loo regularly and clean up any accidents. Yes it’s a bit of a faff for you initially but it doesn’t have to be some big emotional thing.

As for getting him to sit, if 5 minutes is too much then do 1-2 initially. Try a game on your phone, a book, fidget toys (I used to have a basket of stuff by the loo that could only be played with then). Whatever you have to do! None of them want to sit initially, they are toddlers after all! Eventually you’ll get something then give a reward eg a smartie and he’ll start to connect the dots pretty sharpish.

By muscle control what I mean is that tiny babies dribble wee pretty much constantly so significant gaps between wees implies that muscle control has developed to where you need it to be. Also if he isn’t drinking much ATM then that’s great as you can get more to work with wee wise by just upping his fluid intake- as a one off for training you can offer all the yummy stuff he might not get normally like juice, squash, smoothies, ice lollies etc.

By developmentally ready I mean the things I would expect a child to be able to do are hold on (if only for a short period) recognise they are having a wee, verbalise they need a wee etc. not sure ds can.

And I think we’re miss one another a bit @InTheRainOnATrain - he’ll sit on the potty for hours but won’t actually pee in it!

And I think we’re miss one another a bit @InTheRainOnATrain - he’ll sit on the potty for hours but won’t actually pee in it!

You’ve just described potty training- learning to do those things is literally what it is. If they already knew how to do those things then they’d already be trained.

If I’m being honest I’m not a massive fan of the Oh Crap Method but the author describes the potty training process really well as:
I have no idea I’ve peed -> I’m peeing -> I got to go pee
Blocks 1, 2 and 3 of training are designed to move through those stages. I’d really recommend having a quick skim read of it and deciding from there. Even if you go with another method I think it might help a lot.

Yes but they do have to be ready - I couldn’t potty train my 3 month old, for instance!

Well yeah obviously their lack of muscle control means can’t sit up, they trickle wee pretty much constantly, they have no idea what you’re saying and they can’t vocalise a need for anything!

There’s nothing you’ve said about your DS that implies he isn’t ready. At 2.5 he almost certainly is baring any additional needs. To understand more about readiness I can’t recommend the Oh Crap book enough.

I hadn’t realised that there was a new baby though. You must really have your hands full so totally it makes sense to wait a bit until you’ve got the bandwidth to handle it. I definitely couldn’t have done potty training alongside breast feeding on top of sleepless nights! I’d make your current plan reading Oh Crap (plus maybe a Google about a 3 day method as an alternative) whilst baby naps. Then if you can try to carve out some time to potty train before 3 as 3YOs can be bloody stubborn so you want to get it done before then if poss. Ideally when you can DH or another pair of hands on board to help too.

Good luck!!

Thanks - I do worry the baby has set us back a bit. I am also worried that having the potty out made it into a toy rather than to be used functionally. So he’ll take his trousers off and sit on it for ages but then never actually gets to the point of having a wee or poo.

I think he’s definitely physically ready but he just - won’t! Which is frustrating!

He will definitely be ‘ready’ in a physical sense - pretty sure all children without physical issues are ready by 3 years, I’d say 2.5 actually. But then of course emotionally/cognitively is different and some kids struggle more than others, whether that’s stubbornness or neurodiversity.

But actually I don’t think that matters in the end because the process is all the same. And it’s one of those grit your teeth and get on with it ones - like tooth brushing or holding hands by the road or any of those non-negotiable but PITA bits of parenting small people. It’s worse for us whilst it’s happening but we have to endure it and enforce it despite the tantrums/problems.

I wouldn’t worry about giving it a good try for a 3-5 day period then stopping if it’s not working - you can try again in a month, nothing bad will happen. But you do need to commit wholeheartedly to the first 3-5 days and grit your teeth through the inevitable mess and tears (yours!)

They are a bit different though @NoSquirrels as you can force them. You can’t force a child to cooperate with potty training.

What I mean by grit your teeth and get on is that you can set up the environment where it’s no nappies (and no pants/no going out) for 3-5 days, and talk talk talk about how it’s no nappies (new baby is a bit helpful here as it’s a ‘nappies are for the baby and now you’re a big brother’ thing), and keep pushing drinks and lollies and so on and mopping up the floor wees etc until it ‘clicks’. You can’t literally force them to wee, but they will do so several times in the course of a day - even the camels! - so you just keep ultimate boring consistency in the message and method until you get some success or cooperation. (Ultimate boring consistency is my biggest challenge as a parent, tbh.)

Honestly it’s an absolute arse if they’re stubborn and a camel but as I say, my personal motivation was how bloody awful it would be with a crawling baby so I kept reminding myself of that!

And - sorry if I sound grumpy at all, I’m just a bit down and probably feeling a bit negative. I do want to work on it but I feel like it’s hard as he doesn’t actually seem to want to.