Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Potty training

Is your child ready for potty training at nursery? Here's the place for all your toilet training questions.

How To Successfully Potty Train

36 replies

kmoreilly · 12/06/2020 18:14

Preamble
Sorry for the length. I try to cover everything as I find that the more people understand the issue, the easier it is to address.

Core Issues
Toilet training is a very stressful time for your child. You are trying to reverse a skill that was taught to your child from birth. As a result, for your child, it is a reverse to what s/he knows, and if forced on him/her, s/he will reject it. Voiding need already exists from birth - it is something that we have taught our children to ignore for our own convenience and social acceptability. Even a new born will fuss for attention and help when s/he needs to void. Most ignore this, and via praise prior and post the event, tell our children to just wet and mess on themselves. Recall the phases "Who's a gooood baby. Did you make a present for mommy" "Is my little precious all wet" "Let mommy/daddy get rid of that nasty..." This is called treat training which is a slightly advanced form of Pavlovian training - pairing a stimulus with a conditioned response = interaction/praise from/with you for wetting/soiling one self. This becomes autonomic - something done without direct conscious control... and is what you are trying now to reverse.

Everything that your child knows is based on prior learning - and the order your child learnt these is based on his/her choice. However, diaper usage is with it since birth - the nurse etc., at birth, cleaned your child and placed it in a diaper. One of the first skills your child learnt was to ignore its voiding needs and just void. You reinforced this training. Everything else your child learnt is after this. Your child's ability to stand, talk, walk etc. is based on the bulk between his/her legs - the feeling that has been with him/her since birth - and you are trying to remove that from him/her.

Really, what we do to our children is a form of child abuse - teach them to void into a diaper, and then when we want, torment them to undo all that training. Aren't we lucky that most of us don't remember our own toilet training... and how would a psychiatrist deal with that one? Let’s teach our own children in a way that they won't need psychiatric help when we are finished?

We can do it the easy way with the help of our little angels.... or the hard way. If you are reading this, I can assume that you tried, and are realizing how strong and stubborn your little angel can be! Do not blame him/her.... we created this problem ourselves and s/he does not understand. So, the easy way is to get your little angel to do all the hard work. That doesn't mean that from now own, you will never have to change a wet / messy diaper.... it means that from now on, the number of wet / messy diapers will get less and less, if done correct.... OR, if done wrong, the messy diapers will get fuller and fuller - which means messy clothes etc. and a cranky household.

Question & Answers
Q. During the transition from diapers to pants, your child will get scared and run back to a time where s/he feels comfortable. Does your child know this?
A. No.

Q. Can your child look for your help?
A. Yes, but there is a catch.

Note: When a child is in a situation that they don't understand, they get stressed. If your child can communicate this so you can understand, the stress maybe alleviated. If not, the stress grows to a full blown tantrum. The child, following the tantrum, will regress back to a time that s/he can understand. This regression is common, and a form of self-comfort to the child.

Q. Can either of you help your child in this?
A. No. You don't have the key information to help your child. See next question & answer.

Q. Can you remember your transition from diapers?
A. No, most people can't remember. As a result, all you can do is comfort and offer your child support - but you are doing that already.

Stress, It's Issues, and How to Avoid It
Potty Training has to be done in steps to allow your child to make the transition in such a way as not to create stress.

Note, I said 'create' stress, and not add to stress. This should never be a stressful time for either of you. If you’re trying to toilet train due to some goal / milestone / time schedule, this will put you under pressure, and will stress you. Your child will pick up on this, see it as a change to what s/he is used to, and regress.

As a result, you both will fail and have to attempt this at a later stage. This has to be a natural calm transition, not a rush cause X preschool / Y school / Z crèche will not accept my angel if s/he wears diapers or my child is older than 3 etc. and still in diapers! As I told you already, it is your child that chooses when to conquer what skill, not you / I / your mother / father / some doctor or supposedly child care expert!

Stressors and Lies
...from an elder / entitled / etc.
"In my day..."
In the elder’s day, medical science was not as advanced. We were not aware of the reasons for the behaviour of children. Most babies wore cloth diapers, toilets were holes in the ground and plastic wasn't as available. That means that a baby, with a wet / soiled diaper leaked, and therefore very rarely was in a wet / soiled diaper for very long. It was the French that decided to use a white cloth nappe - French word for tablecloth - that was anglicized to become nappy. The American term diaper came from the old French diapre which means clothed. As a result, the correct phrase would be one diaper a baby with a nappy. Prior to diapers / nappies, children wore nothing below their waist and often would be naked. It was royalty etc. that decided to hide infant genitalia with a table cloth etc.

...from an entitled / someone trying to belittle you etc.
"There must be something wrong with your child - my child was toiled trained at x months..."
As previously identified, children reach milestones in their own time and in their own order. It is not unusual for one of a twin to be able to run around, but not be able to talk while the other is constantly talking but still won’t stand / walk. Similar exists with diaper / toilet usage as compared with any other milestone. It is just we tend to over associate diaper usage with baby behaviour more than any other actions. Look at hand to eye coordination, for example, you / your partner when drunk. It is not the first time you / your partner got drunk. Some drunk people wet/soil themselves while awake/asleep. Your child has stopped soiling its diaper while asleep, and will wait till its awake to soil. You/your partner blame the alcohol - but you / your partner have experience being drunk so by rights, you should have learnt. This is a key point - the reason you/ your partner did not learn was that it is not a skill that either of you think you need - to have fine muscle control while under the influence of alcohol. Your child has already made that call in relation to diaper / toilet usage, so why criticize him/her. Your job is to give your child the options. S/he will make the correct choice given the time.

...from a crèche / child care facility / business etc.
"All entrants must be potty trained"
This is to reduce their costs. A staff bathroom is a legal requirement in a business. A diaper changing station is not. It takes time, and staff away from the core business to change a diaper. It depends on the country the ratio of care-workers to children, and normally it is in the 1:8 ratio = one career to eight children. However, if one career is in a one to one engagement with a child - like changing a diaper etc. - the business needs to employ extra staff to handle this. As a result, this rule is for their profit, not for your child's care / interest.
Secondly, as previously identified, a child will regress when placed in an unfamiliar environment. This means that your rushing to get your angel toilet trained to suit this business' profit margin will end up with you being called to take an over stressed scared wet and messy child home to be cleaned. When this happens, is it the child's fault / or yours? Who is going to cover the weeks / months and maybe years of counselling that might be required to get your child back to the level s/he was before you exposed him/her to this level of abuse?

...from misreading of medical newsletters etc.
"The average age for toilet training is 27 months"
This is a quote from the statistics of John Hopkins Medicine. When one reads the full article, one can see the phrase Children develop at different rates. This is key here, but its value and actual meaning is hidden within the report. What John Hopkins Medicine is trying to identify, poorly in my opinion, is that everyone is different and everyone is unique.
Secondly, what is being hidden is the source data from these statistics. It is true that since John Hopkins Medicine records began, 1830s to date, approximately 200 years, 12 million were born, and in that 12 million, the average age for toilet training is 27 months.
What is not identified is that the toilet training age has been increasing since 1930s.

Year | Training Age
1930 12m (1 year)
1960 18m (1y 6m)
1990 30m (2y 6m)

2000 40m (3y 4m)
2010 48m (4y)
2020 52m (4y6m)

These are the average for that year, but is still does not mean that your child should fit into that average. It is more likely that your child will not. back to the phrase Children develop at different rates. added to that everyone in the world is different and unique, as is your angel. In some areas, 5 - 15 year olds are still in diapers.

Actual Training Steps
The steps will mean more wet / messy diapers / pull-ups - so in reality, nothing much has changed - but it will by the decision of your child. Your child will look for more 'you and her/him' time during this. You may see it as him/her deliberately wetting / soiling his pull-up so s/he can get the extra time it takes to clean up. Do not worry about that - it is his/her inner self trying to revert to what s/he knows. As I stated, this will take your time as well as your child's. Day-care workers etc. usually can't do this as they really don't know your child and his/her whims and/or subtle signals.

Step 1 Day 1, week 1
After breakfast, introduce your child to a potty and tell him/her of its use. "This is a potty." "This is where we put all our wees and poos" "Mammy does not put wees and poo into a nappy(diaper)" "Mammy uses the potty" "Daddy does not..." etc... and then show your child what to do when then need to, by mock sitting on the potty. Invite your child to do same.

Let your child become familiar with it - keep it in the play room and a second one in the bathroom. You want your child to be comfortable with this new toy / chair. S/he might sit on it (with his/her diaper on) to mimic you / your partner when you / your partner go to the bathroom. This is normal behaviour.

Your child will, occasionally, sit on the potty if s/he remembers before wetting / soiling his/her diaper. make nothing of it nor even mention it while changing your child's diaper later.

Step 2 Day 3 Week 1
After breakfast, introduce your child to pull-ups. Leave 2-3 of them in the playroom with him/her, for him/her to get used to the feel of them / the characters etc. This is to show your child the new underwear / pull-ups etc. and get comfortable with them. It is better for your child to be without clothes at this time, but still wearing his/her diaper.

"These are your new underwear, which will allow you to pull them down when you want to use the potty" and hand him/her a pair. S/he might try and put one on over his/her diaper. Again, this is ok. You can ask him/her, “Can mammy help?”, but let it be your child's idea to put it on, not yours.

Step 3 Day 5, Week 1
After breakfast, change him/her into the pull-ups. Remind your child of the potty, and its purpose. At this stage, your child should have got used to the pull-ups, and may have put one on over his/her diaper a few times and/or sat on the potty chair while wetting/soiling his/her diaper. If s/he has, in that process, pulled it down before sitting on the potty, good. If not, do not worry. It is a learning stage.

Result A
If your child is successful in using the potty, s/he will go looking for you / calling you to tell you to get your help. Give praise, but no rewards despite how much you want to. This means that your child stays in pull-ups even at nap-time / bed-time.
If, during nap-time, your child soils the pull-up, go back to Step 2 with your child back in diapers for the next 3 days. This means that your child is holding his/her poo = constipation, and is not ready for training, so give him/her another 3 days. This is not your child's lack of control, it is due to your child force holding its poo so not to soil itself, and when it falls asleep, it relaxes and soils itself. Your child had stopped soiling its diaper during its sleep usually by 6-9 months old.
Take the pressure of him/her, diaper him/her and restart Step 2 in 3 days.

Result B
If your child just continues to wet / mess the pull-up. just change the pull-up. Do not comment re the potty etc., just change him/her as if everything is totally normal. Do this until his/her morning / afternoon nap when you will change him/her back into diapers. Don't worry if your child has not yet mastered training. S/he does not have the focus as yet, and needs time. Reintroduce him/her to pull-ups via Step 3 and leave him/her in diapers for 3 days.

This process is repeated until your child is confident to use the potty on his/her own. Do not worry about times of regression. These will happen. Your child will pick up the skills very quickly when they make up their minds to do this - and will almost magically become clean and dry day and night.

I identify ways of failure, but the failure might not be noticed now. When a child feels that they are trying to impress you, and this happens all the time, they may try and hold wee and poo so as to gain your approval – this means that your child has picked up on your need to keep its pants clean and dry. Toilet training is not not voiding, it is reacting to the internal body signals and voiding in a toilet following these signals.
Holding causes constipation and reverse pressure on the kidneys. As a result, s/he may have transitioned from diapers to underwear, but is somewhat weeping during the day /night - OR even worse, has over strengthened bladder / bowel sphincters. This causes long time issues - in males, it can cause impotence, and females, complications in pregnancy / childbirth.

Potty training is in itself, not complicated, but we need to realize that it is not us training our children... it is us giving our children all the tools so that they can learn and react themselves.

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
kmoreilly · 20/06/2020 17:43

Source: www.nhs.uk/conditions/pregnancy-and-baby/potty-training-tips/

Quote
It usually takes a little longer for children to learn to stay dry throughout the night. Although most learn this between the ages of 3 and 5, up to 1 in 5 children aged 5 sometimes wet the bed.

Source: www.telegraph.co.uk/family/parenting/why-do-todays-parents-find-potty-training-so-tough/

Quote
In September, a survey by the Association of Teachers and Lecturers revealed a huge rise in the number of children starting school without proper toilet training. Seventy per cent of British primary schoolteachers have noticed a rise in the number of three to seven-year-olds wetting themselves during the school day.

Source:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilet_training

Quote
The majority of children will achieve complete bladder and bowel control between ages two and four. While four-year-olds are usually reliably dry during their waking hours, as many as one in five children aged five will occasionally wet themselves during the night.

Source:www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/toilet-training-at-2-is-normal-in-us-but-very-late-in-china-and-other-countries/2018/01/12/903a016e-f005-11e7-97bf-bba379b809ab_story.html

Quote
Only about half of the children in the United States are fully toilet-trained by age 3

Source:www.channel4.com/news/teachers-warn-more-children-starting-school-unprepared-and-not-potty-trained

Quote
some still in nappies under their school uniform ... class of 2019. Nearly two thirds say they’ve seen ... new pupils not toilet trained. ... children who didn’t recognise books, swiping them like tablets. And – with some parents delegating story time to technology – is Alexa becoming nanny?

Source: www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-6932241/Potty-training-expert-insists-not-acceptable-send-five-year-olds-school-nappies.html

Quote
send their five-year-olds to school in nappies... Infant school in ... hired a 'professional nappy changer'

And now, the reverse issue where children are not being let go to the bathroom
Source:www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3344326/Schoolgirl-wet-class-teacher-refused-let-use-toilet-lesson-time.html

Quote
Schoolgirl, six, wet herself in front of her class ‘because her teacher refused to let her go out to the toilet during lesson time

Source:community.whattoexpect.com/forums/hot-topics-1/topic/teacher-refuses-child-bathroom-break.html?page=2

Quote
Teacher refuses child bathroom break

and more cases of this is happening daily, where either the child does not have the requisite control - is not potty trained - to last the hour of a class without wetting self, AND/OR is still in some form of nappies while attending school.

Potty training is NOT a simple step of getting your child to use a toilet instead of a nappy during the day and then, when the child sleeps, the child wets and some soils a nappy / pull-up / bed wetting pant etc that they need to wear until they are close to 15 years of age! AND, when they are in an place that is not the home, like school / shops etc, they need some form of nappy OR they need to be within 10-15 minutes from some form of bathroom.

Toilet training is facilitating a child to learn when they need to go. With wee, it is the child learning to recognize the bladder stretching and allowing the bladder to expand rather than voiding via reflex as soon as the bladder begins to stretch. When one senses the bladder stretching, one usually have 30-60 minutes before needing to void. Non-trained people void by reflex within 3 minutes of this sensation day and night.

@SomeoneElseEntirelyNow
to you, this may fit into the category as tl:dr like most of the information within the links I found from a simple google search! It is one of the many reasons that I posted on this site the simple steps to correctly toilet train.

Some other key information - over 60% of the world adult population is not correctly toilet trained.

400ml is the average non-expanded adult bladder capacity. 700 - 1200ml is the fully expanded capacity. 4000ml is the required fluid intake per day for an adult, which most adults only consume 2000ml per day. That is 166ml per hour (12 hour day), which would mean an adult should last 6 hours ( 6 x 166 = 996ml ) and therefore, only need to void twice per day, yet most adults void 6 times per day. Therefore, they can't cope with greater than 333ml within their bladder! As a result, the bladder has never learnt to stretch.
How can you expect your child to cope when you, as a fully trained adult cannot?

OP posts:
kmoreilly · 20/06/2020 17:57

...continued

What one also needs to be aware of is the prevalence of adult nappies available for those who leak urine from a cough, laugh etc.

Companies do not manufacture and advertise a product where a need does not exist. Companies make produce to sell from profit where a large market already exists.

In order not to possibly offend - see waken up - its potential customers, these adult sized nappies are marketed as 'briefs' or 'bladder leakage underwear' or 'Discrete' or 'Boutique' - anything other than refer to them as nappies / diapers.

Yes, I am aware that there are a number of people that have control issues from birth / injury / genetics etc, and in no way am I disrespecting these people.

What I am referring to is those group of entitled who won some race when they were 2-3 years of age to be out of nappies ahead of some neighbor child, and have spent all the time since then, partially in wet pants / wet beds / rushing to a bathroom etc due to not being taught correctly in the first place, and today, or in the short term future, are on the path to be back in nappies - in their minds due to complications of surgery etc.

OP posts:
kmoreilly · 20/06/2020 18:13

.... Back on topic

Toilet training is NOT just getting a child out of nappies, and its purpose is not so you, as a parent, does not have to change nappies. It is more primal.

You taught your child to

  • use the nappy as its toilet.
  • wee as soon as urine entered its bladder
  • poo as soon as it has the urge

You need to teach your child

  • not to use the nappy.
  • to be able to hold its wee for up to 8-10 hours.
  • hold its poo until it is on a toilet

Everything you teach your child is for its lifetime, not just for now cause it is convenient for you.

If your child is wetting at night, it is not trained. If you are not comfortable with your child not wearing a nappy of some form overnight, the child is not trained. If your child is going to the toilet / potty every hour / two, the child is not trained.

You have certain goals as a parent - by the time your child starts school, your child needs the basics of reading, writing, self hygiene (not need a bib to be able to feed self), ability to interact with others, and able to hold its bladder/bowels for 3-4 hours.

Without these basic skills, the child is not able to handle school in any form as they will be focused on learning these basics instead of expanding their minds - the core reason one attends school.

Most school entry age is 5 years of age.

Toilet training. like every other skill a child learns is self taught. All a parent does is provide the environment, and a child learns based on previous skills learnt.

OP posts:
Rubyroost · 20/06/2020 18:46

@kmoreilly what you say does make sense. I'm just not sure how to teach it. My joy is coming up to 2 1/2 but you like me don't think he's ready, yet say it needs to be taught before a certain time. What if he doesn't ever show readiness, whatever that is. I'm getting a bit stressed as to when to introduce it and when to start. We are holding off currently and I'm thinking of starting again in a month.

kmoreilly · 20/06/2020 19:49

@rubyroost,
You pride and joy is learning at his own pace, not yours. All you have to do is be ready for him when he makes the decision, and mark my words... he will. How you notice it is he will tell you before he wees / poos his nappy. Also, he will start to find that the nappy is preventing him in his play - you can 'help' him discover this by emphasizing the fact of the nappy when he starts to tell you of his need prior and post actions. This skill you already know and are doing to get your pride and joy to do certain things.

In the meantime, leave the potty as the new toy in his life - you will find that he will see it as a seat and get comfortable with it. Once he starts to do this, get him a pack of pull-up training pants - preferably one that has his favorite character on same and in a size that will easily fit over his nappy. Dress him in only a t-shirt / top and nappy with the pull-ups over the nappy, and teach him how to pull-up and pull down the pull-up - and step back and let nature take its course.

Teaching a young child as compared to teaching an adult is easy. The child WANTS to learn and has innate curiosity. The child also wants interaction with you and wants to please you. This makes teaching the child easy.

You should not be getting stressed with this. Your child can walk, talk, self feed, and interact with others. Everything else is built on these base skills. All these skills are self taught on the schedule of your child, with your love and help. Toilet training will be self taught again on the schedule of your child and again with your love and help... so relax, give him the love and he will return it ten fold. He teaches himself faster than you can ever do once given the opportunity. Just step back and let it happen.

OP posts:
Rubyroost · 20/06/2020 21:44

Thank you @kmoreilly I will certainly try!

kmoreilly · 21/06/2020 19:31

@rubyroost, you are more than welcome. If there is any other help you need, please don't hesitate to ask.

OP posts:
GingerScallop · 22/06/2020 05:06

Interesting to see an alternative to leave the nappy off method

RihoM96 · 22/07/2020 11:04

Hey Thanks for this post. Can you recommend me some books or courses on this topic? I found this one. What's your opinion? Should I buy it or you have something better? Thanks, upfront...

Here's the book: bit.ly/2CVGqSy

Rubyroost · 31/07/2020 19:08

@kmoreilly thanks v much for all your advice. We are now potty training in pull ups and my son is asking to go for a wee. I stupidly have given rewards, a star chart and chocolate buttons as these do motivate him. I know you suggest to take these away, but I'm not sure whether to. There's such differing advice re rewards.

However, he's still missing the toilet, more so when he's distracted. So I've a few questions and issues you might be able to help me with.

Sometimes I do suggest he goes to the potty, do you think I should lay off this completely and just wait for him to tell me each time.

He's going every 45 mins and doing small wees, this is the same whether he wets his nappy or goes on his potty. Initially I thought it may be in reaction to rewards, but now I think it's just his bladder. Do you think this is normal? Is it a sign he's not quite ready?

Would you suggest changing the pull up every time he has an accident (might get expensive given how often he wees, if he's had a lot to drink can be every 20mins) so he knows he's wet or just leave from time to time?

Any advice on how to help him decrease amount of wees, I imagine its frustrating having to go on the potty so often and so am not surprised he's not telling me he needs a wee all the time.

Rubyroost · 31/07/2020 19:10

@kmoreilly btw he does tell me when he needs a wee about 50% of the time now.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page