Almost 5. At least 4 accidents today. End of my rope.

[bunique]

Almost 5 year old DD. Has never been reliably dry in the day since she came out of nappies at 2 but is showing absolutely no signs of improvement. No UTI. GP clueless (told me to see HV). HV recommended drinking more but it is impossible to force her to drink more in the day, I'm constantly reminding her to drink and we take water everywhere with us. Missed a day out today because I had to clean up an accident which would have made us late for what we had planned. Had to leave a play date early last week because she had wet through all the changes of clothes I'd brought out with us. I don't want to take her out anywhere anymore. Doesn't care about sitting in wet clothes. Will get herself changed and will clean up floor when told to. School next week and I'm sat here in tears yet again feeling I have completely failed at this. No one I know seems to be having this problem and I can't see any end in sight. Has anyone got any words of wisdom? I don't know what to say to any HCP that will get them to take this seriously and even if they did I don't know what else to do

[MajesticWhine]

Yes, we did timed visits for a while, but it quickly ran out of steam with DD saying she didn't need to go and getting really grumpy with me. I still do regular reminders though, but she usually says no to those too.
I'm going with bribery at the moment. A sticker book she wants for this week, in return for going for a wee 5 times a day. And staying completely dry in the day for 2 weeks, for a minnie mouse kitchen (god help me if she does it, it looks utterly shit). I know it's daft doing bribery if she can't actually manage staying dry, but in her case I am 95% sure she can do it, but is just too lazy.

[AnnaD2]

My DS doesn't start school til the end of next week. I don't think his issues are as severe, but he almost seems to have lost the ability to know when he needs to go, with accidents everyday this week. I wonder if he is anxious about school. We have also recently moved and have a baby on the way so bless him, perhaps he is feeling extra unsettled.
What seems to work best for us is frequent prompts/insistence that he uses the toilet and rewards for completely dry days. I do worry about him not getting that in school though

[AnotherSENMess]

Can I just post a little (possible) encouragement? DS went to school not toilet trained with wees, though could with poos, as pp are saying. Nothing worked for him, nothing. And I hold my hand up and admit he was Yr 3 before he was completely dry during the day (night time he was dryer much sooner). HE was the one coming out wet, in fact I could smell him most days - even though nobody else could, I was that attuned by the end.

But it did happen.

He did it, himself, in his own time. I suddenly realised that the replacement underwear hadnt been used for a while. A long while. He is now 13, and well well away from it all. He has also since been diagnosed with Aspergers and Dyspraxia, both of which I believe can make it harder for children to learn toileting. (NB I am not saying this is the case for any children being spoken about on this thread, just my DS).

I also do not think he suffered socially at school from it. He did not appear to be ostracised by any of his peers because of it.

But, it does happen, they will get it and more than likely a lot sooner than it did for me. I understand that the majority, if not all, reception classes will have a couple of children who are not reliable. All I would do is make the teacher aware in advance, if at all possible.

[bunique]

Thank you AnotherSENMess! There are so many threads all over the web looking for advice and very few with positive stories of things working out in the end (though logically I know that's the likely outcome!) so it is reassuring to hear yours and pp successes.

Yesterday we were out most of the morning so I agreed with her in advance that I would set a timer to go to the toilet. 10 minutes after leaving the house (and having weed before we left!) she had a small accident but managed to hold the rest until we got to a toilet. Then no accidents other than a minor trickle at the end of the day.

I've taken the plunge and ordered a vibrating watch for her to wear in school, and will set it at intervals through the day that we can hopefully extend if she is accident free. I'm going to ask class teacher to put us in touch with school nurse as soon as she starts too. Fingers crossed...!

[AnnaD2]

Bunique - that watch sounds like a great idea - how do you think your DD will respond to it? I get quite a lot of resistance from my son if I remind him often. He'll say things like, 'I don't want to use the toilet today!' Grrr...I think he feels hassled and yet he can't be relied on to take himself. He has also started lying about being dry when ask him if he's had a little accident

[bunique]

We had a chat yesterday and I said I was going to set a timer to try and help her have less accidents. I think she thinks it's a game at the moment so is fairly compliant. She is VERY excited at the thought of her own watch

She has absolutely no clue when she needs to wee. None. No idea how I've not noticed this before! It's always out before she realised she needed it.

[Lamination]

Schools can be hood with this, there is always more than one child with issues. Poo in our case, pant loads of the stuff, all the weirder as not previously a problem but after two years of school issues I csme to the conclusions that
A) kids don't pick up and bully about this
B) impatience, anger, frustration just makes it worse
C) time helps a lot

Don't feel alone, lots of us out there.

[bunique]

Thanks Lamination - I'm keen to keep this thread going if only as a personal tale of woe as it is so reassuring to know we're not alone and that it gets better.

[ISaySteadyOn]

I'm struggling too. DD is 4.5 and fine at school, but at home, she will NOT go except in the morning when she wakes up and at night before she goes to bed. I remind her and remind her but like MajesticWhine's she just says she doesn't need to go and gets grumpy with me and then I get grumpy with her because I have yet more wet clothes to wash and it's a really bad cycle and I do not know what to do about it.

[bunique]

Aah, I wish I had some encouraging words for you Steady. I'm currently packing her first ever PE bag full of spare knickers and trying not to feel like a bad mother...

[AnotherSENMess]

You are not a bad mother, I promise you. IMO you just have a daughter with an immature bladder. It will improve, I guarantee you, I just can't say when.

Explain to the school, try the timer (didn't work for us, but I know it has for others). Oh, and cut out blackcurrant juice, if your DD drinks it, as that can cause problems, as, I believe, can fizzy drinks.

If the school feel it is a problem that may help with the GP, or they might be able to refer via the school nurse, but then again it may be in the realms of normal in their eyes.

[bunique]

Good point about the school - I might tell GP they've said it's a problem even if it's not!

[bunique]

Survived first morning!

[AnotherSENMess]

Well done mini-bun

[Lamination]

:) what a good start

[MajesticWhine]

That's great

[bunique]

She did use the loo about a million times but she often does in new places because of the novelty factor. Just in for the afternoon tomorrow then two longer days so we'll see how we go!

[bunique]

Hope everyone else who was nervous fared okay too

[AnnaD2]

Glad the first day went well bunique We don't start til Thursday! lamination - your a), b) (c) are really helpful - i think you're right. I used to work with 4/5 year olds and they really don't pick up on things like this happening with other children yet. I need to remember that with my DS.

[bunique]

One accident today - not sure about yesterday, whether she was wet at school and just didn't get changed or stayed dry. Teacher has been reminding her at each transition but at the moment the novelty of having new friends to wee with is definitely helping. Went better than I expected but a real full week next week to put us to the test!

[bunique]

Just updating for anyone who stumbles across this via google searching Referral to school nurse being done today. Only one accident in school last week and teacher is prompting her at each transition. But I still want to get to the bottom of why she has no urge to go!

[MajesticWhine]

Glad it seems to be going a bit better bunique.
My DD had a good week at school and stayed dry, but she had accidents over the weekend, due to the change of routine I guess and because I relaxed and didn't nag her - looks like I still need to.

[bunique]

Good stuff *Majestici!

[AnnaD2]

Referral to the school nurse sounds good! I'm glad things aren't going quite as badly as expected, Bunique and Majestic. My DS has had one totally dry day and 3 days where he has left it too late to get to the toilet and had a small accident. He hasn't mentioned it to the teacher. He is still needing lots of prompting for wees and poos at home and is clearly holding poos in until he gets home (which I think can't be very comfortable for him!) am gonna see how the rest of the week goes and then speak to the teacher. It's hard to know how much to intervene. Reward chart for dry days seems to have lost his interest due to a lack of success I think.

[bunique]

I don't know what the class teacher is doing but two dry days in a row now, and dry at home as well yesterday evening.

Anna, how far are the toilets from the classroom? My DD's are right outside the class and exclusive to reception and Y1 - I wonder if bigger kids or a distance to the loo might put them off a bit? Teacher is reminding her at each transition and that seems to be doing the trick. I won't count my chickens until we get a good stretch of days/weeks though! The novelty of the new loo will wear off I'm sure.