Never tells us that he needs to go!

[L0zza]

DS is just 3 and this is my second attempt at training him. The first attempt was when he was 2 and 11 months - he showed all the signs of being ready, but after a promising start when he'd eagerly wee and poo at our suggestion, he took against the whole thing and would refuse to sit on the potty so we took a break. Now we're on attempt 2. I have now been training him for a month and he reckons he understands that wees and poos go in the potty or toilet and not the pants. He is perfectly willing to sit on the potty and the toilet, and squeezes out wee or poo with enthusiasm. He gets a choc button as a reward when he does do something in the potty. The only problem is that he has never told us that he wants to go, and if I don't remind him, he just wees and poos in his pants and rarely mentions that he's wet or dirty. In fact he'd happily sit in his own poo or wee for hours as I tested him one day and 1 hour later, he was still completely unfazed by this!! After an accident, I say "Where do wees and poos go?" and he says "In the potty!". I tell him that he will get a sticker on a chart if he says "Poo coming!" etc and if he gets 4 stickers, I will take him to his favourite place, the ice cream parlour. Still no progress. A few times, he has gone off to hide and do a poo so I suspect he knows when one is coming, he just doesn't want to do it in the potty. I have no idea about whether he knows in advance that the wee is coming. How can I get him to start telling me that he needs to go? Plerase help, I feel as if I have been potty training him for years and am in despair!!

The problem with dogmatism is when other people are telling you repeatedly that their child was NOT physically ready at the age of 2 and a half to three, though possibly at three and a half, and you refuse to contemplate this as a possibility.

Having an opinion is fine but when others have put forward their own 'case studies' as you put it, ie observations of their own children, and you tell them they must be making it up because you don't believe their child wasn't physically ready, it comes across as dogmatic. I hope that helps clarify.

I never said they were making it up, not at all. Not sure where you got that. I believe that parents describe things as they see & experience them, & of course each situation is different.

The confusion lies I think in parents thinking their child is not physically ready (& thus more time needed for child to get ready) while in fact there may be other reasons why the child appears ambivalent or even outright negative towards potty training.

I've written before that these other reasons of not wanting to get out of nappies are of course ordinary & very common, & can be resolved. But they're not the same as physical ability which in fact develops much much earlier in children.

Dogmatism or not is beside the point, I, like many others here, am expressing my views, no more no less, & hoping they might be helpful. If someone doesn't find them helpful, that's life, I accept that of course we don't all agree :)

'But they're not the same as physical ability which in fact develops much much earlier in children.'

Physical ability to what, though? And how early exactly does this develop? You're stating it's a fact so how can you back that up - a fact is more than an opinion, isn't it?

I got the idea you were saying that people were making up that their children were not physically ready properly to use a potty from this: ' I really really don't believe that any 3 year old is not physically ready for potty training.'

What I am trying to ask is how you know for a fact that other people's children are physically ready for potty training and at what age.

You might have experience of your own child but you have not observed other people's children, so how do you know?

There are no 'facts' (or very few) when it comes to child development. There are many different theories & debates, and yes opinions. Not sure what's so upsetting/controversial about what I said which is that readiness for toilet training is not purely biological but it's emotional too. You cannot separate the two, how could you?

Hope that makes sense.

As for whether I base my opinion on something other than my son's observation, I think that's completely irrelevant. I always mistrust people on MN who come on & say 'I'm an expert in this or that'- & anyway how would you know it's true? It's an anonymous online forum.

I think the opinion of every parent is valid & perhaps can be helpful to some. Or not.

' But they're not the same as physical ability which in fact develops much much earlier in children.'

that's stating it's a fact; you appear to contradict yourself regarding facts.

It isn't so much what you said as the manner in which you said it. Saying things are facts when really they are opinion is a bit confusing.

I think though we're going round in circles here. Facts & opinions sound similar sometimes because people have...well, strong opinions either based on their own experience, their work or whatever.

I still can't see what's so controversial about saying that the vast majority of 3 year olds have the possibility of going longer spells between wees & have the physical ability to control their bladder. And that the purely physical bit is there from earlier. My opinion is that that is a fact (making a joke emoticon). But because it's never purely physically determined how this thing develops, some children may appear not ready which is where they need patience & support from parents.

But I feel now I'm repeating myself!

An interesting discussion.

Can anyone offer me some potty training advice please? Our DD is 2.2. We've been sitting her on the potty a few times a day since the Autumn but haven't let her go generally nappy-free yet (too cold!). She uses the potty if she's on it but she also frequently goes in her nappy and has never asked for the potty.

Our strict nanny is getting very frustrated with her. When DD uses the potty the nanny rewards her with praise, stickers and chocolate. But when she goes in her nappy our nanny tells her off in a loud voice and says that she won't get any chocolate/cake/TV/particular toys etc. DD immediately starts crying and the nanny gets indignant and angry.

I just wonder if she's being too harsh on a 2 year old?

I'd prefer to highlight the positive behaviour of good potty use and brush over the accidents but I realise that the nanny and I need to be consistent and that if left to me I'd probably totally spoil DD.

I would seriously question your choice of nanny! That's shocking and a completely outdated way of potty training. That's the way to create complex issues about using the loo! You reward the use of potty but definitely do not chide a child for an accident etc. You need to be the parent and inform your nanny how you want it done, not the other way around. Oh and 2.2 is pretty early days, go really slowly. That is not spoiling your DD to do it in that manner!