Issy's graduates (Bella, Blue, Head, Jumping, Irish, Wasabi, Girl, Sunny) here to give advice and swap tips

[bluesatinsash]

Ta da!

Hope this shakes a few of us out of where we're languishing these days .

Let this be the one-stop shop into everything that is the crazy, wonderful, sleep and sanity deprived world of bringing up baby

So this is where you?ve been hiding! It?s so lovely to ?see? you all again. I?ve bumped into some of you on various breast feeding threads (yes, guess what my challenges have been) but I?m so glad we?re all in place again! Thanks to Bella for tracking me down. Blue I must have missed the message you left on another thread but thanks for trying ? I got here in the end!

I caught up on the thread last night in bed so I suspect this is going to turn into a monster post. Freddie is asleep on one of his increasingly rare daytime snoozes and Clara is in the garden with her dad. Like her brother she seems to like gardening ? or rather being carried around in a sling while her Daddy potters in his beloved green house.

Well, we are all ok. Clara is so beautiful and so incredibly sweet that it breaks my heart sometimes. She has a lovely husky little voice, the sweetest smile and big blue eyes like her bro. Freddie has handled it all well and is so proud of his baby sister. He is turning into the loveliest little boy and I?m so proud of him. He?s a whirlwind of energy and mischief but so kind and gentle with it sometimes. I love the fact that we can chat more now. We go for walks to feed the ducks and he goes on the buggy board when C is in the pram and just chats away which I really enjoy. Clara is basically a fairly chilled baby ? much more so than Freddie was at her age but we?ve had feeding problems (nursing strikes and just me being bloody knackered from it all) and sometimes I just feel a bit like I want to run away for a few days. Or weeks. I seem to remember similar feelings with Fred at a similar age and they did pass. I think it?s just the way it is if you are the sort of person who likes their own company and quiet which I am. I recharge by being alone. However DH and Freddie are the exact opposite which makes things challenging sometimes. Clara has also started to become very clingy in the last week or two. She was quite relaxed when she was younger but is going through a phase of screaming the second she is put down so I am spending almost all my time with her either feeding or in a sling which is exacerbating my feelings of claustrophobia. I just keep repeating my mantra which is as follows:

?One day they will be gone and you will have nothing but peace and quiet and you will probably hate it.?

I just take one day at a time although I am dreading the 4 month growth spurt/regression etc. I have a feeling it's looming large as Clara rolled over for the first time the other day and I seem to remember that developmental ?firsts? were usually accompanied by hideous sleep regressions. Mind you, they?re all different. We?ll see.
If it makes you all feel better Clara is most definitely not sleeping through the night. She goes down anytime between about 7 and 8 usually and then wakes anytime between about midnight and 3 (yes, very predictable ? NOT) when she is given a bottle of EBF usually by DH and then usually again between 5 & 6 when I feed her myself. Usually she falls asleep on the job after a few minutes and goes back to sleep until between 7 & 8 but sometimes she doesn?t which is fun. The EBF seems to keep her going for longer because she doesn?t fall asleep straight away. Before we did that I would try and keep her awake by changing her nappy mid breast feed but that just really annoyed her which, to be fair, I don?t blame her for.

Her daytime naps are all over the place. She struggles to stay awake more than about an hour and half without getting cranky but usually only sleeps for 35-45 mins. Every now and again she?ll pull a super snooze for 2 hours or more (usually when we want to go out somewhere) but mainly we have to put her down 4 or even 5 times a day which is a bit of a pain. The gaps between naps get shorter and shorter though the day as she gets more and more tired. There?s no consistency. I remember with Fred trying to work out what we had done to get him to sleep longer than one sleep cycle when he occasionally did the same. I didn?t figure out the answer then and I can?t now either. I just put it down to the fact that she is, well, a baby and they are massively inconsistent!

I have been trying to stretch her feeds out a bit ? anywhere between 3 and 4 hours is the norm but sometimes it just doesn?t work. She is a really pukey baby which can be quite trying as well. I do so much laundry. DH treated me to a tumble dryer before Clara was born (I know, he does spoil me so) and I?ve certainly got his money?s worth out of it. The feeding has got me down a bit. Blue referred to it on another post as being scunnered. I have no idea what that actually means but it sounds about right. I am determined to manage exclusive bfing until 6 months as I failed so spectacularly with Freddie to do that and really regret it but it?s so hard sometimes. I keep thinking ?one bottle won?t hurt? but then just feel so guilty and resolve to stick it out for just one more day. Most of the time it?s ok (although trying to prevent Freddie smashing up the house around my ears when I?m feeding her is a challenge in itself) but when we had these issues around 12 weeks I got so miserable. I think it?s just the physical toll of being her sole source of nutrition that sometimes gets me down. But then I think I need to have a word with myself as I have avoided mastitis, blockages and all the other painful complications that so many other people seem to manage to get through. I?ve got nothing to complain about at all so feel guilty that I don?t always like bfing as much as I feel I should.

This has, predictably turned into a monster post so I will do personals in a separate post. I may have to do it later so till then......x

Hi everyone,

sorry for going awol for a bit, I've had the most rotten cold. It's been a week now and showing no signs of going. I think it's turned in to a bit of a chest infection too as I'm bringing up... well, you don't want to know what I'm bringing up

Anyway, Francesca has also been a pain somewhat challenging this week, going to sleep at 7pm as usual and then waking up every half hour or so throughout the evening, so I've not been able to get the evening meal done until 9pm sometimes (dh is utterly useless in the kitchen, he can't boil water!) and I've been up and down the stairs a billion times while hacking like an old man. Not much fun. I think Francesca's got a cold too though, so I can't be too harsh on her. Poor Luca's had it too, we've been the house of snot this week!

wasabi Great to see you back, I know we've wandered past each other elsewhere, but lovely to see you nonetheless. Congratulations on the bfing front, you're doing absolutely brilliantly. The thing I always try to remind myself when ever bfing gets me down is just how blimming convenient it is sometimes. Whenever you go out of the house, you don't have to worry about bottles, sterile water, powder, heating the water up, cooling it back down again, having enough with you if you get caught out somewhere and all that rubbish. I'm finding it so fantastic that I always have a ready supply of sterile, perfectly mixed milk at exactly the right temperature. None is ever wasted (unless she pukes it up - another story) there's always enough, if she wants just a nibble or a full three course meal.

With a toddler to look after it's just so fantastic to be able to go to say the park for the afternoon and not have to worry about food for her.

It took me a while to realise that with Luca, but we went on holiday when he was 3 months old and that's when I just clicked how convenient it all was. There were people on the flight faffing around with bottles cartons of milk (bought for a small fortune from Boots in the airport because of the liquid restrictions) etc and I just wapped the old boobies out and fed him on the plane - just so easy.

Oh and I've been amazed at how robust Luca is, I'm sure it's down to bfing, I think this cold he's had this week is only the second one he's had in a year! And when I had norovirus and was puking everywhere I was convinced Francesca would get it, but she didn't, again, I'm sure that's because I was bfing her.

You have my big respect for being able to express with a toddler around. I was a mad pumper when I had Luca, I used to do it three times a day, I even hired a hospital grade double pump from Medela and usually got about 10oz a day, I did try pumping when Francesca was about 4 weeks old but it was hopeless with Luca about. It's bad enough just trying to bf with him around.He's always clambering all over me, but if I sat down and pumped for another 30 mins too I think he'd destroy the house in frustration!

I refused to have any formula in the house when Luca was a baby, because I was convinced I'd weaken and give it to him, but this time I've actually got two cartons of ready mix in the cupboard. I've never used them, but they're there just in case. I really don't think one bottle will do harm at all, but I want to save them for when I'm rock bottom. Francesca has already had formula anyway, on day 2 I gave her a bottle in hospital because she had tongue tie and was so frustrated she couldn't feed she was exhausted (as was I) and just so hungry... so I've failed already! But hey! It's not a competition... a happy baby is all that matters in the end eh?

On the napping front, Clara sounds just like Francesca, she only naps for about 30-45 mins at a time, but she only really does that two or three times a day. Occasionally she'll also do a marathon three hour nap, but that's rare. Usually she cat naps, so different to her brother. I'm finding it hard to allow her to be herself, I keep trying to force her in to the pattern Luca found, he very quickly dropped in to the pattern of waking up at 7am, having a 2 hour nap 11am-1pm and then another hour from 4-5 and was regular as clockwork. Francesca will usually wake around 8am, will get cranky and need a nap at about 11.30, then she'll be awake most of the afternoon until she's getting cranky again at about 3pm. I'll usually feed her to sleep then, as I really don't want her sleeping after 4pm as she never goes to sleep at 7pm if she does. That's all the day time sleeping she does. It's quite a shock, and I think if Luca had been like that I would have been frantic, because I used to sleep when he was sleeping, but as I'm not sleeping anyway, what do I care?

sunny hello to you too!! Glad you're here. Sorry to hear you're so tired, at least you're not alone there Re: the bleeding, after my first cs I bled only for about two weeks, very lightly as well. I had packs and packs of towels which I ended up giving to my friend. This time around I bled pretty much on and off for 6-7 weeks. I stopped for a whole week at one point, and I was quite surprised when I started again, but I'm sure I was just over doing things. Impossible not to, so why I was surprised I'll never know

Bella glad to hear you're feeling a bit better now. A predictable pattern does make things easier, even if you're still getting up three times a night, it's nice to know you're going to be getting up three times a night. A word of warning though, with Luca every time I got comfortable with a routine he'd change, which was so frustrating which is why I'm not really getting to worked up about routines at the moment because they change so often in the first year. I think it really takes a full year for them to get really settled and not change their routine because by then they're usually well on to solids, pretty much walking (or already walking as in ds's case) and awake for the majority of the day, so nightime routine can settle and become more predictable. Sorry if that's a scary prospect, but I think it always helps to be prepared for the worst (and then hopefully surprised if things turn out better than that! )

How was your romantic night away? Good I hope. What a lovely treat for you... I keep saying to dh we need to do something like that, we're just too darn lazy to organise it! I'm very of your massage. Just the thing for bfing induced aching shoulders! I never used to worry about drinking and bfing, partly because I knew I'd never drink that much because the thought of having to deal with a baby and a hangover was too much for me! I read some posts on here about people who pump and dump if they have so much as a glass of wine. I used to go out of my way to drink a glass of wine a night when Luca was a baby, I was convinced it helped the breastmilk flow

jumping I can't remember Luca being particularly windy when we started weaning, but then he's got a cast iron constitution. Francesca is a much more windy baby, so I'm expecting trouble when we start weaning. Good luck with it all, hope it goes well and Ffion loves her grog! I've been co-sleeping with Francesca too, she's still doing a 2am feed and a 5 am feed so I usually bring her in to bed with us at 5am and fall asleep with her on the boob. It does result in her bringing most of her feed back up sometimes, but hey, we get some more sleep so what do I care? Now I sound really callous!

Irish did the ash cloud get you? I know that Northern Irish airports are closed now, but did you manage to get out to Seville? My friends are due to fly out from Birmingham tomorrow but their flight is currently cancelled. So gutting because it's their first holiday with their ds.

Righty, that's yer lot from me. I'm still nursing this cold and it won't heal itself unless I get some serious shut eye, so its off to bed for me! Night night x

No personal for me Head? Have I said something wrong as you never seem to repsond to anything I say these days ?...

I've had a major breakdown this morning in front of my Mum who has come to take Isaac to playgroup. Ben was up 4 times feeding last night and I just cant't go on with this . I'm so desperately down about my lack of sleep and feeling out of control.

We bought formula last Thurs with the hope to help Ben space his 10pn feed out but of course he is refusing the bottle.. And the words of how marvellous BF is isn't helping me today.

I'm feeling a bit 'lost' on this thread TBH, maybe just shows how down I am but my need for routine and stuff is just a bit offkilter with things..

wasabi - glad you came over, sorry my welcome is less than bouyant, but you know I'm just beyond it all this morning..

Really am just quickly popping on this time but wanted to send huge hugs to Blue, oh honey, I really do empathise with you, the sleep deprivation is such a killer and makes me so emotionally volatile I'm probably a nightmare to live with, it just completely wears you down.

Know this won't help but just try to rest whenever you can - maybe see if someone can help out with Isaac a bit more so you can nap whenever Ben naps in the daytime. My only advice with the bottles is keep persevering- I find mornings were the most likely time for F to accept bottles - evenings she was usually overtired and really wanted me and the boobs. Also try a slower flow or variflow teat as the ones that are up from newborn stage can overwhelm a b'fed baby. I started with EBM but tbh F took formula as well (or as badly) as EBM. It took us nearly 2 weeks to get her taking the bottle properly- and I credit my MIL with the success- it really did help if I was actually out of the house so no chance of F smelling/hearing me and knowing boobs were no option.

Someone advised me to consider giving F the hungry baby formula milk at bedtime to help her through the night in the weeks before introducing solids. I haven't tried this yet and have only given F a bottle occassionally at bedtime with normal formula milk and so far it hasn't helped her night wakenings so I may try the hungry milk. In desperation now I am cosleeping most of the night as finding we get a bit more sleep that way, but I am like a zombie most days now. Just praying that in a month or so things get easier.

Gotta run as in work But couldn't leave your post unanswered xxxxx

Will be back to you all soon! Welcome wasabi and big hello to everyone else x

Oh Blue I'm so sorry, I really didn't mean to leave you out. I'm just a bit rubbish at scrolling up and down to see who I'm responding to and I always lose my way. And I seem to always get interrupted by Francesca waking up and totally lose my chain of thought

I'm so sorry you're so tired, it's absolutely the hardest thing in the world and really don't think people appreciate it unless they're doing it. I wish I had some sage advice on how to get Ben to take a bottle, but Luca took one really easily, mostly I think because he was totally fed up with my rubbish bfing attempts. Francesca had a bottle in hospital but she was starving and desperate so perhaps that made her all the more determined.

It seems like a tremendous amount of money to invest but as Jumping says, is it worth trying other bottle types. The only bottle I've ever used on Francesca was the Tomee Tippee closer to nature ones that are supposed to look like a boob. They're meant to be better for bf babies. We had one free with our steriliser so I tried it. Maybe that's why she was so keen to take it, either that or she was also fed up of my rubbish half hearted attempts at bfing.

I know you said it won't help you today, but you are really doing such an amazing thing for Ben. There was a letter in the Times the other day talking about how bfing provides so much more than the immunity and other benefits we all know about, there are all sorts of clever compounds that help a child to regulate their appetite which can prevent obesity in later life. Apparently bf even changes during the day, so the milk you produce in the morning is suited for a days activities and the milk you produce in the evening is more suited to helping baby sleep. It's just amazing stuff!

That said, I don't think there's ever anything wrong with giving formula either. I was fantatically against it with Luca but second time around I'm much more relaxed. We've already done so much more than 90% of the population!

One thing that's occured to me, have you tried a cup for Ben? I know he's very young, but I seem to remember threads when people who were having problems getting their dcs to accept a bottle were advised to try a cup. Even a few sips at first might help.

Reading your other thread in breast and bottle feeding, I agree with the other posters, ignore all books. Babies are all so different, how anyone on earth can write a book with routines for every baby is beyond me. I think Tik Tok is right that the ten min feeds are really one feed split up a bit...

Have you tried going back to co-sleeping yet? It's really helped me while I've had this horrendous cold and I've been really feeling rough. Last night Francesca fed at 7pm, 8pm, 10.15pm, 2.30pm, 5am and 7.30am and I had her in bed with me from 5am. The 10.15 feed was my dream feed. It has really helped and dh is still in bed with us too. I move my pillows to one side and have mine lengthways so it's narrower and creates a gap for her to lie in. When I brought her in to bed at 5 she latched on and I fell asleep again, I woke up at 6am to find her still nibbling away, but I did feel that getting that extra hour sleep is a life saver.

Sorry, I'm rambling on in a rather directionless way. Anyway, I really am so sorry. I hope you manage to find a solution. I agree with Jumping, getting someone to take Isaac once in a while so you can catch up is great. Co-sleeping is another really good idea, this is a really challenging time in a babies life, everything's chaning so much that anything you can do to keep on top of things has got to be fine, regardless of what the ever so sanctimonious baby gurus think!

Please don't leave us, please be happy, please eat lots of chocolate, and please God let the babies sleep tonight

xx

Oh Head - thanks for your reply, I feel so about my post this morning, over sensitive - moi?!! I may be a 38 year old, married mother but can still feel like the girl in primary 5 who is being left out by other two friends - these things never leave you do they? .

Jumping - honey thanks for your support too, it really means alot to know I'm not in it alone.

I've been crying buckets all morning, and my darling Mum has been here holding me up and wiping my nose. She's taken the boys out for a couple of hours so I can rest and reboot. I think the last two years have hit home, the whole trying to get pg, stay pg, recover from mc, this pg, the irregular heartbeat scans of last Nov, the unsuccessful VBAC, not having the DD I always dreamed of (not that I don't love my Ben with every fibre of my being), the worst winter in living memory, just the emotional bloody rollercoaster of it all.

I've had some lovely support on the thread I started this morning so won't regurgitate it all here but realise the night feeds are all normal for a baby of Ben's age and how I deal with it and with my needs is what is important. I'm going to persevere with bottle (have tried TT, Breastflow and Avent but back to TT as had most success with them), get to bed early twice a week and accept that this is my life just now but it won't be forever.

wasabi - hope I've not scared you away with my meltdown this morning. your DD is absolutely perfect, just gorgeous. I can so relate to needing some 'alone time' and if I don't get it my mind feels clutterd and I feel on edge. DH took boys to inlaws on Sat and I got 2 hours of me time - OK I was doing housework but just having the house to myself was such a lift to my spirits. I returned the favour yesterday as Isaac had a party and took both boys so DH could potter in garage/loft and he felt much better for it.

Sunny - how are things going? You at least have some 'this too shall pass' stories from us a few weeks down the line!

Bella - forgot to say eek! about you having to move and get a new job . Are you just not going back to your old one? How was your night away? Did you use the topiary kit of this time last year ? I have honestly never LOL as much as I did when you posted about that..

Irish - hope I've not scared you off too. Motherhood isn't all bad you know, honestly! How was Seville?

Right going to phone DH and let him know I'm still here and not in loony bin.

xx

oh blue welcome to the loony bin! I have realised too that I definitely need a bit of structure and need to reimplement just to get back to where we were last week. This weekend I knew I had to let DP sort of take over because he really wanted to show good willing but it all went a bit wrong from the beginning to be honest. I told him that I didn't need a hotel or any grand gestures - I just needed a morning in bed so in fact on Saturday morning he decided to take George out for a walk in the sling. Hurrah thought I - A massive nap for us both will be the best start possible. Alas, the poor child was taken facing out the whole time and unsurprisingly only managed 20 minutes - oh yeah and he hadn't even put him in properly ! DOH! The hotel was lovely and it was nice to get out of the burbs but by 3 G had only had about half an hours sleep - won't bore you with the whole thing but basically we took him down to the restaurant to eat with us - asleep (I turned down DP's suggestion of leaving him upstairs with baby monitors!!)and he woke up and went all mad and hyper - it was quite sweet - he was all giggly but looked so wired so i bf'ed him back down in the swanky restaurant. Oh yeah and I forgot to say that when he woke up clearly totally confused as to where he was he did this one piercing howl!! Anyhoo then it turned out the massage was booked right splat when a feed would be. I had to explain to poor old DP that I couldn't just whack him on an hour ealry as he wouldn't be interested - so we were back home by about 10 yesterday. DP feeling like he had lost his manhood by getting it all a bit wrong, and me even more tired than before, tho still chuffed to have got out of the hood. To be honest I think/thought there may even have been a proposal in the offing had things worked out but never mind . I'm probably wrong and would never admit that to anyone else.

blue lovely I so know what you mean about feeling out of kilter - the thing is we all have to do what works best for us. Trying to gently introduce a bit of regularity is a must for me. G has hardly touched my boobs today despite me trying to ram them and squirt them at him but i know he's just not hungry because he has a lovely, quiet dark all you can eat buffet available at night. Not sure how to change that but I am worried that he might do the total swap. EEEEEK. Must find some energy from somewhere and do my best to nip that one in the bud..

I am happy to deal with two wake ups which is just as well since that is the best on offer but I really can't function on much less sleep than that and I definitely couldn't if I had another LO to look after. Also I do think that the post birth hormones are all leaving us now and that makes things much more tiring too. I used to positively spring up from bed at 7 and have the house tidied and a cake baked by lunch (i did go a bit stepford) but now I barely open one eye as DP brings me a cup of tea in bed...

I am keen to sort things out to the best of my ability without any unecssary crying from G though. I know he is only waking from hunger so I may have to start topping up in the evening. The only bottle he has ever expressed any interest in is Nuk by the way...

wasabi welcome welcome welcome. So pleased you have found us and sorry things have been a bit of a chore for you too at times. Your catch up post was lovely. Clara sounds totally adorable. A husky voice...how sweet is that?!?!

I better go though more later - haven't forgotten about any of you! just got to do something for my mum before the bambino awakens.

oh and yes blue the garden shears wax strips did come out - not that there was any bloody need though. I had a bath with G so hopefully he at least appreciated the effort

to be continued...

Having just read your other thread looks like there is little we can do about this other than rant on here. And to think i had it sorted when he did his one 8 hr stint...[pride before a fall emoticon!]

DS has had the equivalent of a twiglet and a vol au vent today. roll on tonight...

Oh Blue, the curse of sleep-deprived paranoia has befallen you! You poor love. Remember: you are not mad, you are exhausted! So sorry you've been feeling rubbish - we all love you here and you are obviously doing a brilliant job of mothering. How are you feeling now? Better, I hope.

Bella, so sorry to hear your break was scuppered by a baby (which of us would have thought, pre-parenthood, that they could wreak so much havoc ) - in particular your well-earned massage. When babies come into the picture, the best laid schemes o' mice and mums gang aft agley (Blue - you alone will probably recognise the adaptation of this quote ) Hope you managed to have a nice time anyway

Wasabi, lovely to see you again. I really relate to your mantra of ?One day they will be gone and you will have nothing but peace and quiet and you will probably hate it.?. Love it - and so true. Like you I think I need a lot of time on my own, and like you I find the lack of it one of the most challenging aspects of parenting. I'm ashamed to admit it, but compared to my demanding DD (who's four) little Tubba is a breeze and sometimes I find myself feeling quite cross with DD for her demanding-ness in the face of Tubba's newborn sweetness and passivity. Is this normal, I wonder, to "take against" your eldest somewhat when a new baby enters the house? Or am I just a crap, f*ed up mother?

Head, hello to you - every time I read about Kerry Katona on the internet, I think of you and your poor parents. What a funny story, but what a living nightmare for them.

Jumping, thanks for the period advice. I'm still bleeding but didn't yesterday or the day before. If it wasn't biologically impossible, I'd swear I was on my period, seeing as the bleeding has been accompanied by crater-like spots on my chin and the sort of period pains I haven't has since I was 16. All very strange. Hope you are having a good day today and don't feel guilty about the odd glass of vino! We mothers need our treats.

Irish, how are you doing? God, I hope we're not all putting you off motherhood! Ha ha, I know we're not really but you're probably thinking "Jeez, they spent months trying to get pg and now they're moaning about their babies". Hope you are still blooming, anyway.

Can I ask "the room" a question about BF'ing? Reading over all your posts, I'd be interested to know what it is about formula that makes you so disinclined to use it. I realise breast is best, and I realise none of you would ever judge anyone for their choices, but still I feel a little ashamed to confess that three weeks in, I'm already mixed feeding. I BF about four times a day and formula feed about three. It hasn't diminished my milk supply but it has freed me up to share some feeds with DH and be less chained to the tyranny of it all. Don't laugh, but I don't really like BF'ing in public. So when we go to church / the park / a restaurant, I take a bottle. Am I being selfish? Mixed feeding seemed such a good solution - a middle way - but after reading this thread and being struck by the vehemence with which most of you are sticking to BF'ing I'm wondering whether there is some argument against it that I'm not aware of. I've always suspected I'm a bit of a slattern in the mothering stakes . I have so much respect for all of you who are sticking it out as I know how hard it is to BF even half of the time, never mind exclusively. And I suppose I want to say please don't beat yourselves up - you all sound like exemplary mothers. It feels sad that you are all so obviously doing so well and trying so hard and yet still being hard on yourselves. Now I'm worried I sound patronising with the "trying so hard" spiel, and I don't mean it that way!
Anyway (and I'll shut up soon), FWIW as a mixed feeder, I've done a fair bit of research into bottles and Nuk seemed to come up tops every time. I know poor Tubba hasn't had much of a choice, but she took to Nuk bottles fine, has minimal wind after feeds and has no nipple confusion between the teat and the boob.

V sorry if I've missed anyone out - please don't take it personally, I'm just bloody nackered. So lovely to have this thread and to share experiences and nackeredness (not a word but never mind)

Blue don't even give it another thought.... just doing tea now, but will be back later this evening, babies permitting. Keep your chin up

Mumsnet mantra... this too shall pass.... this too shall pass, this too shall pass, this too shall pass this too shall pass, this too shall pass, this too shall pass,this too shall pass, this too shall pass, this too shall pass, this too shall pass, this too shall pass, this too shall pass, this too shall pass, this too shall pass, this too shall passthis too shall pass, this too shall pass, this too shall pass this too shall pass, this too shall pass, this too shall pass,this too shall pass, this too shall pass, this too shall pass, this too shall pass, this too shall pass, this too sthis too shall pass, this too shall pass, this too shall pass this too shall pass, this too shall pass, this too shall pass,this too shall pass, this too shall pass, this too shall pass, this too shall pass, this too shall pass, this too shall pass, this too shall pass, this too shall pass, this too shall passhall pass, this too shall pass, this too shall pass, this too shall pass...

sunny - i've got another few seconds before bathtime because Chuggington is on .... I'm really really not anti formula at all, I was before Luca was born, but I didn't have a clue lets face it, just how blimming hard it all is. And I nearly cracked so many times, but I kept thinking "I didn't go through those hellish first few weeks to give up now". Probably totally stupid of me I know. Anyway, the reason I'm very sold on bfing now is purely out of my extreme tightfistedness and total laziness. I cannot be arsed cleaning endless bottles and worrying about taking formula bottles water etc etc out with me every time I leave the house. I just take my boobs

I read somewhere on here that bfing saves about £1000 a year, and that really appealed seeing as I am as mean as the meanest miser in Scroogetown

Laters...

x

ok, the brats darlings are in bed, not necessarily asleep, but I'm taking advantage of a few seconds of peace and quiet....

Blue It sounds like your mum is fab, is there any way you can make it a regular thing, her taking Isaac, even if it's for a couple of hours? I have found that just the thought that in four days (or whatever it is) Luca is with the childminder/my mum is enough to keep me battling on through.

You have had a really tough start with Ben, and you're right about the winter. It has been flipping horrible and I know that's made all the difference to me too, and I'm in the soft South! I've decided the best time to have a baby is May, you go through the hellish first 6 weeks and emerge from the pit of dispair in to summer, whereas we had to contend with the most Godawful weather, and (I don't know about you) but almost no support or visitors because everyone was snowed in for weeks!

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, do what ever you can to get through it. I'm still feeding Francesca to sleep every night, and usually most naps. I keep getting the old "you're making a rod for your own back" line from my mum, but I don't care, she doesn't have to try and contend with a four month old and a 2 year old! I'm just doing what gets me through the day.

That said, I do think I'm probably very different from you in that I'm really not a routine kind of person. I'm almost always late, usually totally unprepared (never was a girl scout you see) and inappropriately dressed (in a shorts in winter, flip flips in snow, cashmere jumper in a heat wave kind of inappropriate way). My mum's always telling me off for being such a drifter, so maybe that's why I've not been so thrown by the whole lack of routine. That or I'm such a lazy mother that I'll still be giving Luca a bottle of milk to get him to sleep when he's 20.

Sunny I was being a leeetle bit flippant on my previous post about bfing. We do have quite a few allergies in my family, lots of really bad asthma and hayfever, so that's another motivating factor for me. Please don't feel your a slattern in the mothering stakes at all. If Lil Tubba () is still getting breast milk every day anyway, I don't think there's any harm in a couple of formula feeds at all. I do feel a little sad when I see people with tiny newborns who aren't even trying it once. I had a friend who went through 6 rounds of ivf before having her ds and I was a little to see her on fb with a pic of her ds in hospital having a bottle of formula. Chatting to her later she said she just didnt' fancy it... struck me as so odd after all that effort to get pg in the first place, but hey, not my place to judge.

Bella I'm sorry your weekend away didn't turn out as you expected, but I hope the change of scenery was a refresher for you. I too have had many a weekend like that. I remember one particularly tense trip to Jersey when Luca was three months old. Lots of conversations through gritted teeth to dh trying to make him understand I couldn't just drop everything and go out for dinner!
that you think a proposal may have been in the offing, I'm sure it'll happen! It's just so hard to be spontaneous with a small one in tow!

Righty, I have to dash, Francesca has already woken up three times since I put her down (Grrrr!) and I'm blimming starving. Posting this before I lose the whole lot...

wasabi how you doing? You scared yet

Irish I guess you must have got to Seville, yay! have an awesome time!

Jumping I can't believe you are working already. Much respect, I find just functioning on a very basic level difficult!

Here's hoping for a quiet night x

What is that I hear < > yes a pin dropping as both boys asleep and DH off to 5-aside footie.

Man I feel emotionally wrung out. Not cried so much since Colin Green chucked me in 1985 and I cried my way through double Art .

Seriously though, thank you SO MUCH for your words of support and 'we're all in this together' it really has helped pull me through today and will keep me bouyed up in the days and weeks to come.

Head - my Mum is the best, always fighting my corner, would be lost without her (eek! welling up again...). I'm v. lucky in that Isaac goes to nursery every Friday and my MIL has him most Wednesday's so I have two 'Ben only' days per week which have kept me going. I had a v. busy Sunday and think that coupled with night from hell just tipped me over today. Hope your two are kind to you tonight . Flip flops in the winter?! Tell me it wasn't on your journey from hospital to the car .

Bella - You described your weekend so well I have a really vivid one part funny, two parts aaargh! Bet your DP didn't know which end was up in the end - bless him. You'll get a massage one day - and maybe your boobs would have been too sore anyway all that lying down on them. Glad little George loved his first posh meal out and a change of sceneray is always good. As for the proposal... he will do it when you least expect! DH proposed to me on a Friday night sitting in his flat about to watch 'War of the Roses' on TV - totally leftfielded me (we were used to dining out alot then in our disposabe income days) I did not see it coming . Dragged him out for posh meal the following week mind to celebrate. Had to at your vol au vont v all you can eat late night buffet - how very bloody true.... I'm with you on the two wakes ups between 12 and 7am are bearable but three just makes me hysterical, seriously.

Sunny - totally with you on the other child frustration thing. I have been exactly the same with Isaac and had to give myself a good talking too last month as was taking my tiredness out on him by being narky, inpatient and not much fun . I've been better with him since then, just over compensating and giving lots of praise. Its hard as he is going through a "I'm the man" phase of being mouthy and all grown up - err, no little boy, just no. As you say, with your DD you probably focused all your grumps on your DH who was luckily at work most days but your DD is there, gadding about and jumping all over you at inappropriate times (feeding/changing nappy/on the bloody loo)...

Apologies if I came across as anti-formula. I'm not at all, though do agree with Head in wishing Mum's would at least try to give lo's the colostrum.. Isaac was on formula from 12 weeks as had horrific feeding time with him from 8-12 weeks and he refused to feed off me. He took to the bottle like a dream and looking back the day he went on a bottle was the day I started really enjoying him..

I vowed this time to introduce bottle with Formula for late evening feed but didn't as was so engorged to begin with I worried my milk would go doolaly if I dropped one feed so early on, then he was so windy/colicky/fretful from weeks 8-14 that they thought he may be milk intolerant so formula was again shelved. I did buy some early April but by that time he was refusing bottle and that's pretty much where we are today.

I totally support and promote BF for all its benefits for baby and Mum but its bloody hard work too. Really that you are switching between the two, best of both worlds. There are some girls at my BF support group who have mixed fed from word go and no-one thinks any less of them, absolutely not. Plus they are a lot more chilled out than me from getting that break! Remember happy mum = happy baby - gah!

Loving your Scots phrase BTW .

Jumping and Irish - big hi's to you and what alot of posts you have to wade through .

Right, going to heave my tired old carcass downstairs to read look at piccies in Sunday papers

Night all x

Arf! That bastard Colin Green eh?

Head and Blue, thanks for your thoughts on BF-ing, really interesting and good to know. I think I'm forgetting that it gets a bit easier after the first few weeks. Goody. At the moment I'm still biting my hand with pain when Tubba latches on, though admittedly the pain only lasts a few minutes and then dissipates. Blue, glad you're feeling better now. Here's to a good night's sleep for all of us (yeah, right) .

Lordy this thread shifts a bit. Amazingly I have got 2 asleep at the same time (the price was a 5.30am start before you start to feel envious). I have no idea how long I?ve got so will crack on while I can!

Blue Aaarrrrggggh sweetheart I want to give you a huge virtual hug. You sounded so down in your post yesterday. I think a good cry must have done the world of good. Being a mum is such hard, boring work sometimes and with 2 it?s just utterly relentless. The days go faster but god it can be depressing. Yes, it is leavened with moments of intense joy but the lack of sleep and any sort of time off for good behaviour can drive you absolutely crackers. We ARE all in this together so please don?t leave the thread especially as I?ve just found you all again . My parents take my DS once a week as well so I have a Clara only day but to be completely honest, I could happily swap that at the moment but of course because of the bfing I can?t. I guess I also don?t want to admit to my parents that I?m struggling a bit at the moment.

I would advise keeping trying to get B to take a bottle. (BTW you really made me laugh with your caped lactation crusader comment). Quite a few of my NCT mates struggled for a while but their babies gave in eventually. They tried different bottles, different times of days etc. and eventually cracked it. Easier said than done I know. Also if it makes you feel better I am quite a routiney person. I would love to be completely laid back but I can?t change my personality and I need some structure in my life. I strongly believe (with the exception of leaving a baby to cry on its own) there is no right or wrong way to raise a child and no way is ?better? than another ? it just comes down to you as a person and what works for you. Given than some personality traits are inherited I think it?s often the case that if you are slightly more structured person you are more likely to have a baby that thrives in a routine whereas if you are more easy some easy go your babies will also be.

This occurred to me when I was feeling sorry for myself for having 2 babies that have both been quite vocal and not really placid like some of my friends kids who seem happy to sit in a bouncer for ages at a time and watch the world go by. I?m not a really placid person (DH is more so but he has his limits) so why would my children be?
Hence I am trying to encourage Clara into a more consistent pattern and she is gradually getting there. It?s just two steps forward and one back sort of stuff. I just have to be patient which is hard for me sometimes.

Head Flip flops in the snow? You crazy lady Thanks for your words of encouragement around bfing. I agree that it?s pretty convenient if you?re out and about and obviously thats a big plus but it does still seem tough going at times ? the traumas that poor Blue has been suffering being a case in point. I think its sheer bloody mindedness that keeps me going sometimes. Lets face it, it isn?t as if some fairy godmother of lactation is going to pop up 2 months hence and give me a gold star. Although that would be nice. I get really wound up with some of the other mums at playgroup and their ?well, Tinkerbell sleeps from 10-6 so I?m sure it won?t be long for you ? mind you, you are still breast feeding aren?t you?? comments. I remembered your teenagers and sex analogy this morning and smiled quietly to myself. Well, as much as you can do while you ate jigging a grumpy baby and trying to sind ?Wind the Bobbin up? with a 2 year old at the same time.

Sunny I do understand your comment about resenting your elder DD slightly when you have a sweet and relatively compliant newborn to play with. I felt a little the same way as DS suddenly seemed so huge and I was so protective of Clara. I did feel guilty about it but its swings and roundabouts. Often now I find myself getting cross with Clara because she drastically reduces the time I can spend with DS. You love them both equally but generally at any given point one is being more annoying than the other!

Has your bleeding settled a bit now? I had a c sec with DS and it lasted about 3 weeks I think. You need to be careful about how much you do. I know it isn?t always practical to ?rest? but I remember feeling a definite twang at one point about 10 days in. I dropped my painkillers as I think they were making me a bit too cavalier. Anyway I hope it has settled now. I would also like to say that I?m not anti formula at all. I mix fed DS due to issues getting things established in hospital and it worked well. But, if I am being honest I felt a bit of a failure for not managing to bf exclusively which is daft but there you go. Guilt is part of the territory isn?t it? I suppose I wanted to prove to myself with Clara that I could do it. Heaven knows why. Like I said, nobody hands out awards but I am a strangely stubborn person sometimes.

Anyway, speaking of stubborn Clara is calling me. Will post more personals this evening x

Hello ladies,

Just back from Seville and had a fab time- gorgeous weather and no ash disruption at all thank god.

Have just read through the thread and my goodnss there's been a lot going on.

I will have to get back to you tomorrow for personals as DH is moaning about lack of "quality" time so I'll write more

Can't scare me off motherhood - quite the opposite you are preparing me for the worst case scenarios.

Hi wasabi welcome to the thread - everyone else sorry but you'll have to wait until tomorrow.

Ok, here we go again. DS is doing god only knows what in his room and DD is actually asleep. Woohooo! Honestly I don?t know why I even bother putting DS to bed before 8 these day. All I can hear is him pinging around up there. I went out into the garden to get some washing in after I put him down last night and he had climbed up onto his window sill and was standing against the window with his arms out like a stick on Garfield yelling ?MUMMMMYYYYY.? Oh well, I have wine. All is well.

Now, where was I? Bella I?m so sorry your weekend away wasn?t perhaps quite what you and DP had thought it might be. Your poor DP must feel a bit crushed especially if he had a proposal in mind. It won?t be long before you can do all this stuff I promise. Last year in April I think we went away to this lovely hotel in the Cotswalds that catered for families and it was great. Admittedly DS was around 18/19 months then but I think we could have done it a good few months earlier. It had a little mini box room built in to the main room so you can have them in a separate room if you like and a proper human babysitting service. I?m not convinced about this baby listening malarkey. We had a lovely time. I think it?s actually possible that C was conceived there! Your DP sounds lovely and kind trying to take G out so you could get some rest. They don?t always get it right but it? nice when they try.
G sounds lovely and is indeed is lovely if your pics are anything to go by. Great name choice btw. It would have been at the top of my list had we not already had a boy called Fred. All I could think of was the Weasley twins in Harry Potter. I really remember very clearly all the agonising over routines, sleep, feeding etc. And just when it all seems to fall into place the little darlings completely shift the goalposts on you! I wish I could come up with some more constructive advice but I?m struggling too at times and given that this is my second you?d think I had all the answers. But annoyingly I don?t. I found the Baby Whisperer quite helpful although not infallible. I still refer to it occasionally and although I think Tracy Hogg was quite old school she had some good ideas. We used the shush patting on DS when he was an uber clingy baby and it did work and I am reading it again now C has got to that awkward 4th month! I think her routine ideas are a little more gentle and flexible than she who must not be named. I can?t be doing with trying to crow bar a 2 week old into sleeping at fixed times of day. You are just setting yourself up for a phenomenal amount of stress.

Irish Did you make it to Seville? Did you make it back? I hope you had a lovely time and have avoided any ash related grief. I hope you are feeling serene and glowy. How long have you got to go now? I?m sorry I really should remember but my memory is pretty poor at the moment. I?m just sooooo tired.

Jumping Hello to you again. I looked at your pictures ? the one of the 3 of you all is just so lovely. I can?t believe Ffion has turned 6 months already. How is the weaning going? I Annabel Karmelled it all the way last time but am much liking the idea of BLW this time round. I no longer have the time to spend hours knocking up ice cube trays of puree or making my own vegetable stock. The idea of breaking a banana into pieces seems more attractive. I can?t remember if weaning lead to increased windiness. It?s shocking how much you forget isn?t it?! I was convinced I?d remember it all but someones asked me the other day when DS said his first recognisable words and I hadn?t the foggiest.
Right I had better go and make some supper. An starving yet again. Until next time......x

Just a wee quiickie to say wasabi- whayt a lovely, lovely post nae posts . You write so well and say things I think of but never remember to type . I feel less stressed just reading your words . So with you on the weaning this time around too.

Irish - glad yu had a lovely time in Seville and quite right spending q. time with your DH, hope you are snuggled up as I type [smile

Another 1am/3am/4.30am for me last night but had a great day with boys as it was so lovely here - man that makes all he difference. Hardly in all day and have the pinky cheeks to show for it . Think my cry did flush out some residiual horrormones.

Wishing us all a good night, it will happen one day, oh yes it will!

Oh and off to buy nuk teats tomorrow as recommended by Sunny and some Mum's at feeding group this morning. You never know...

So pleased that everyone seems happier.

wasabi Thanks for your brilliant posts. I still haven't looked at your updated photos but will, and I will add a couple of G. Fred was on our list too but was taken by a friend first. I rofl at the picture of your DS at the window. Is he what Ms Hogg called 'spirited'?! He sounds fun and cheeky and that's what you want in a little boy, as well as loads of cuddles.

irish Pleased you had a lovely trip in Seville. What a nice time of year to be pregnant and showing off your bump. Have you got any bad symptoms at the moment or are you just in second trimester heaven? Have you thought about buggies yet? I didn't at all because I got a second hand pram but G has grown out of it and my brand new yet nearly half price Quinny Buzz has just arrived from ebay and I am well excited. I never knew before I had g just how important the buggy decision was. I never thought I could hold long conversations about them either...

Head you are totally right about not getting used to a pattern. Every day is a bit different, though nights seem to have settled on 10:30, 2:30 and 5:30 awakenings this week. All these posts and me thinking out aloud and contradicting myself every 5 seconds have made me realise that in fact neither G nor I are strict routiney people. I am too lazy to pursue the shoe horning boot camp kind of thing and it's only when you have a baby that doesn't naturally have the rhythm of the books' routines that you realise quite how much shoe horning would be involved which is unnatural. I think we are both happy going with the flow and having roughly the same morning wake ups and bedtimes and a sort of pattern to the day. Having said that and accepted that, I still have to feel like I am making some efforts so that i can feel like I have done all I can to make his life run smoothly. Have the colds cleared up in your house yet? G is full of snot but doesn't appear to be suffering too much. i hope you get to eat a meal in peace soon. Do you have time to whizz up any laksa or curry pastes or marinades in the day? i find that they help to make more interesting quick suppers sometimes.

I went to a buggy fit class yesterday and now realise that we are in fact pretty much all in the same boat with babies this age - with the exception of those miracle babies who sleep and sleep and sleep. In fact there were a couple of girls who had already starting weaning at 18 and 20 weeks because they felt that they couldn't keep up, so basically we are all doing brilliantly. Also another of my friends has a baby who went from sleeping well to waking up every twenty minutes all night one night to waking every single hour for the last week or so. Another friend's baby couldn't join together two sleep cycles for months.in short, I find it's always helpful to know that other babies sleep less

Also I am lucky in that noone else in making any demands of me right now so I can walk around in a daze and go to sainsburys to buy a chicken and come home with 3 bags full of shopping but no chicken and that's ok . I love being on maternity leave and pottering around and cooking nice meals and being generally a bit 1950s without the immaculate house and with better cafes. I am dreading going back to work and having to commute and barely seeing G. That is when my shit shit time will come so I am going to just enjoy the summer, even if it is all spent in a bit of a fog.

sunny i love bf'ing, I am lucky that i haven't really had any problems with it - it's waking up to feed at night that I find tiring but I figure that at least I can just wop them out in the dark and don't have to fiddle around with bottles in the middle of the night. I think ff would therefore be more tiring for me, although if night wakings increase I will probably start using it. I am certainly not against ff though and it simply wouldn't occur to me to judge someone who did use it, unless they really hadn't even given bf a go and just thought that it was weird. I, like head, have some cartons on standby and to be honest there have been days where basically all I've eaten is cake and I'm not sure that the formula wouldn't have been the healthier choice but i also like the thought that I have totally grown this little person. I grew him in my tummy and now I am growing him into this huge 75%ile baby boy. It's so amazing and it tickles me to think about it. I am crap at growing plants but all right at growing people so far by the way have I missed what tubs real name is? Do you have a photo up?

jumping gawd only knows how you fit everything in that you do into one day. Do your days perhaps have more hours in them than mine?! I am in awe. hats off. I have G in bed with me from 5ish to ensure I can stay in bed til 7:30. It's only dozing though because I just can't sleep that well with him next to me. I keep thinking I am going to push him out. Also he is sort of on and off the boob which distracts me. In relation to the weaning, a German friend swears by bottles of fennel tea for wind...

blue it's lovely to read about you being back on the up. What a difference this weather makes. I really hope that you are managing to get some extra sleeps in. Your mum does sound like the best. It's great that she is on hand. And your DH sounds lovely too.

I am loving the sunshine and I also had a lovely start to the day. We were all having breakfast and DP was getting ready for work when he told me that G had a present for me. He was sat in his bouncy chair holding a little box with an engagement maternity ring inside it it's very beautiful and quite packed full of sparkly little diamonds! I am so not a magpie normally and easily pleased by cups of tea in bed but I must admit that I have an extra spring in my step today. It is nice being spoilt even though we are skint and should be saving.

Think we have found a house too though it's not as nice as the one we're being chucked out from. I now have to think about getting my cv together. I HATE doing my cv. Manana manana...

Hope you all have nice days today. Entertaining a toddler must be so much easier when the sun is shining and mercury is rising

ttfn

oo just a quick question or 2

How are you bathing your DC now they are a bit bigger and stronger? G is definitely enjoying a splash about now and I think the tummy tub is still fun for him but was wondering what next. One of those curvy things you put in the bath? Do they kill your back? I'm a bit worried about that because my back and my knees are hurting quite a lot these days...

If you did Annabel last time but want to do BLW this time is it because purees are such a faff? I'd be interested to know. I like the idea of baby led weaning but I also like the idea of a baby with a really full tum

ppppppppppps

blue just read your last post on the other thread. HOORAY. So pleased you had a better night. Go DH. x

SORRY one final thing blue. Are you still actively spacing out his feeds or has he slipped into going longer naturally?