March 2013 - by the time we finish this one we'll be shopping for elf outfits. Eek!

[ecofreckle]

Here we go again then ladies. Plenty more shiny new space to fill up with ramblings :-) Link to last thread

Having said that, we're almost definitely going to send ds to the local primary (with its requires improvement ofsted rating), and reinforce learning at home in more, erm, interesting ways.

I still hate the idea of uniforms though. Oh but my dad has tried to purchase yet another controlling stake in our lives by offering to pay for private school

stormy I got ds a tea set, in the night garden toy, little tikes see saw, drums (I may regret buying that), keyboard, a little play tent, car garage, happyland train set and London bus. These are toys he can grow into and all bought in the sales or with discount codes.

I have yet to buy dh, a token gift for nursery and the secret santa for the adults in our immediate family.

betty hope you are having a good night out.

I am shocked reception children come home with homework. They are only babies. We have quite a few academies in our borough but don't know if it is a good thing or bad.

worse I would start with a list of items you would need for your hospital bag. "To do" lists is my best friend. Ticking things off as they are completed gives me that extra motivation to keep going.

I did vaguely wonder what MN would think about moving for school. Then I thought sod it. MN isn't my child. If it makes worse feel any better, I don't drive anything let alone a 4x4, wouldn't vote Tory if you paid me, and I'm not entirely sure what an Ugg is. Anyway, MN also tells people like me that we should be happy spending our lives in dilapidated and overpriced rented hovels because the freedom to move is marvellous. Apparently. So I shall exercise that freedom.

Stormy I was joking.... and no one on here wants anyone living in miserable conditions, and to be fair you don't. You have a flat to yourself, at a reasonable cost. More than can be said for a lot of people.

Plonky if PIL were available for stand-by I wouldn't have a problem, but they live a couple of hours away, and the journey between us takes in both the M25 and the Dartford tunnel, so at rush hour it could easily be nearer 4-5hours. That's the issue I need to address... I have literally no one who could cover emergency childcare as all family are miles away, and it's too big a favour to ask a neighbour. Realistically it will be a case of DH having to take time off in the final couple of weeks, and missing the birth to take the toddle home again. I'm ok with that. It's what my mum had to do in the same situation.

Rotten mood today, can you tell? Zero hours sleep. Literally. My head is spinning. Part insomnia, part toddle related, in total miserable! I shall retire to a corner now to snap at people and complain.

Stormy you're right. Who gives a toss what MN or anyone else thinks. You need to know you're doing what's best for your child and if that means moving then so be it. We're smack bang in between two primaries. One is lovely and one is rubbish so fingers crossed we get into the lovely one! Our neighbours DDs go there so I'm hopeful but they only have one class per year so it would depend on that year's intake size, siblings already in school etc. although if she didn't et in we've always got the RC schools. Sometimes being Catholic has to be a good thing!

Worse I've always been the same as you and refused to think about Christmas before December but the MN Christmas bargains thread has inspired me! DD is done as are most of her birthday presents and I haven't paid full price for a thing. Now it's time to start on everyone else's stuff! I'm excited about this Christmas, it's the first time we've ever had Christmas in our house and I've got grand plans. The only potential spoiler is that because we're 2 people down on the rota there's no registrar for Christmas Day or any of the Christmas week nights and I have a terrible feeling they're going to force one of us to do it rather than get a locum in.

My night out was lovely and not too boozy although 3 cocktails and a glass of wine did make me rather woozy! Luckily DD obviously knew I needed the sleep and didn't wake up until 7.30, an extra hour on her normal time, so I'm not too delicate!

Wotta we've got teething here too so the calpol is always on hand and there's a lot of yoghurt and bananas being consumed and very little real food!

Right I'm on my phone and have forgotten everything else and Peppa has finished so I'm currently being climbed on by a small monster demanding toast.

I know you were joking, worse. I just get a bit overly defensive, cos you lot are grand, but out there in the wider world of active convos there is a lot of judgement. Sorry.

Ah, Betty, if you're Catholic you'd love living where I am - the RC school is literally next door so you'd definitely get a place. Shame it's in special measures. And my sympathies re: potentially working Christmas. Must be a bugger to not know for sure, cos you can't even plan.

The only presents I've sorted so far are for my sister and her kids. She texted a list of books, I hit amazon and had them sent straight to her, job done. My dad will be easy (whisky), my brother will be (books), my mum will be (asks for a pair of slippers every year). The man, the toddler and the littlest niece, though... God knows what they're getting.

Oh can you all shush with your productive Christmasness?! You're making me look bad! No one has anything here yet, and I'm pretty sure whatever they do get will be handmade. Although, we have booked DS on a super special magical Christmas journey to meet Santa and frolic in the woods and play with elves, so that's productive.

yummy crikey! Your DS is a very lucky boy!! I think we'll be getting DS very little this year, while we can still get away with it.

stormy you've inspired me to research the local primary school. There are two he could go to and one has its own swimming pool! But we walk past the other one every day on our puppy walk and it looks so quaint and is more within walking distance. Plus, a teacher friend has told me that it's really good so that one looks more likely.

worse is there no way you would, or could be able to, have ELCS? Then you'd know the day Babax will be here and can plan around that. That's what we're doing next time, partly because I've already been through it, but also because I don't want to go through labour again only to be sliced open or if you don't want a csection, could you request to be induced on a certain day? I don't know how it all works really.

betty glad you had a good night out. Cocktails sound so very necessary.

Uggs! I know what Uggs are! I have them I'll start tying the knot for my noose

Something you can't ask for an elective CS or induction for social reasons. You'd be increasing your risks for no good reason and units have to prioritise people that have medical reasons and need for them so there's a good chance of coming into hospital and then waiting for a few days until there was a slot with nobody higher risk than you available. It's different if you had a section first time but Worse am I right in thinking you didn't?

Worse have you thought about talking to some of the girls at nursery? If you go in during the day it would be worth knowing if you could drop DD off at short notice and then DH would only have to be out for pick up time instead of the whole time and one of the nursery girls might be willing to take her home or back to yours at short notice if you're in having DS. Probably worth an ask rather than having to resign yourselves to DH missing it and you being alone.

Are you surviving today? No sleep while pregnant and with a toddle sounds impossible. Is DH around?

I'm shattered already and keeping everything crossed for all the women in North Yorkshire not going into labour tonight so I can have a sneaky kip!

I am also a mumsnet nightmare. I have uggs, look a prat in an artfully placed scarf, drive an SUV thingy (almost as bad as a 4x4 surely) and would definitely move before secondary school to get into a better catchment or even consider private schools if we're much better off by then! I shall expect my eviction notice shortly!!!

Yummy you're not alone, I've bought far too much for Christmas for DD too and I know she'll prefer the boxes but I'm planning on keeping half back for her birthday and some bits through the year and am consoling myself that nothing was full price except the Ikea table and chairs that I'm going to do up myself to make it lovely!

Ah, thanks betty see, I told you I had no idea how it all works. I just know that I was told I can have a elective one next time and that's all I remembered!

As it turns out, we may be joining you with the lots of Christmas presents for DS as he has developed a Thomas obsession and DP is getting very excited.

And it's time to stop working! Yey, home time and rush hour traffic

Since we're on the topic, and SIL was musing about it recently, Betty, what's the deal with birth options after a caesarean? SIL was under the impression it'd be an automatic caesarean for her next one, and I was able to disabuse her of that notion but couldn't offer much by way of further detail.

for worse, and sorry again for being a bit prickly this morning. Hope your day got better.

Highlight of my day was finding Evil Gina's potty book in my charity shop. Twenty five pence very well spent. Will be flicking through it this evening, if anyone would be interested in an extremely abridged version on here later.

For Christmas so far DS has the happyland train thing and a ride on wotsit. The only other things he'll get are some colouring in bits and a bit of duplo. Austerity Christmas here while we can still get away with it! Mainly because all our house buying fees have gone on it, so the credit card balance is a bit of a shocker.

Worse did you get a nap? And, it's a bit lentil weavey I know, but would you consider hiring a doula? Not for the advocacy because I doubt you'll need it, but so that you have someone with you while dh stays with dd?

Well I've owned uggs. And I am currently borrowing a 4x4 with a semi ridiculous leather interior and an altogether ridiculous mileage per gallon. Except my new car is a fiat panda, so that cancels that one out. I like a good scarf though. Not sure what that makes me on MN but I'm sure someone would give me a

Surely I win with our plan to circumcise ds. I am mn worse mnetter. I know so many people in rl from various religions and ethnic groups who practise circumcision.

All this talk of potty training, primary schools and second pregnancies we are all going too fast. Maybe I am still yet to get over the shock of boxing up ds baby stuff.

betty did you have a sneaky nap?

something what are you planning to make for Christmas?

worse I agree with whoever said (sorry I can't remember who) to ask nursery staff. You never know what this birth experience will be like and might need an extra pair of hands to help you out. Also, I am sure dh would like to be there at the birth.

Hello on this .....er..... what is Monday? Moany Monday? That's not very chipper, but can't think of a better one.

I returned from lakes safe and sound. To be greeted by a bouncing up and down girl grinning widely. Nice. She's fed just fine since I returned and my supply seems ok. I missed her! It goes without saying she had a fabulous time with my Mil who by all accounts stuck to our normal rhythms and foods so no overdoses of smarties or crazy late nights.

I am a geography teacher by training so am interested in children's personal geographies. Does anyone else notice their little ones knowing where they are? For example, passing the road that eventually goes to the park and stopping to demand 'park' or waving at a house where friends live as they pass by? These babies astound me daily. So smart with their new skills.

Christmas is proper austerity here. Ecotod has a big animal book, some play doh and a play kettle. My sister is clearing out her girls' toys so there'll be lots of hand me downs too. I find it hard to resist 'stuff' but am trying hard to walk the talk a little bit on the 'you can't buy happiness' thing. My conference was quite stimulating. Lots of work on values and children. There is research about what values children think their parents prioritise for them and separately what values parents say they try and prioritise. The parents say stuff like self respect and altruism. The kids say academic achievement. It made me think I need to give some thought to what my behaviour/habits/priorities say to Ecotod. I say this as a hippy who is concerned about the future my girl will be facing and the skills she will need to deal with it. I just found it an interesting alternative to the normal parenting books that bang on about manners and tantrums.

Worse, how do you feel about giving birth without your dh? From outside that seems too much of a compromise. My friend who lives in Cranbrook used her daughters nursery as someone else suggested. They had her daughter for a practice overnight to reassure everyone she would be fine and then had her when the time came. At late notice. I don't like to think of you resigning yourself to the outcome of going solo if the thought of it is unpalatable to you. for your crap day. Cleaned the pantry?

Stormy I'd love to hear about the potty wisdom please. Ecotod declared 'bum poo' today and so we thought what the heck and sat her on potty. Which lasted five seconds. With no poo. Obvs.

Plonky for every 4 x 4 basher there's another ten mumsnetters who couldn't give a flying feck. I have fairy lights in my lounge and wear goretex daily. Who cares! Is your panda brand new? I've never had a brand new car and imagine it'd be pretty exciting. It will need a name of course. Don't go on baby names threads.....run your ideas past us!

Betty Christmas at yours requires Delia and perhaps Nigella too. Sounds exciting. How many will you have?

Shattered I repeat yummy's cry: where are you dear? I am really hoping all is well way out west.

Yummy no wonder you're frazzled what with all that Christmas prep. Are you feeling a bit more together this week?

Something I can't remember anyone's birth stories so excuse me, did you have a c section with ds? They told me I'd have an elective option for number two because of my third degree tear. I wonder what other circumstances mean they offer.

Oh crap, look at the time. I said I'd be down for dinner at half eight and I'm not even out of Bath yet.

Night all!

Yummy considering you're opting for circumcision for cultural reasons, and you're a bright, considerate type who'd actually think about such a thing I think its a choice worthy of respecting. Historically speaking there must have been bajillions of boys circumcised during early childhood, if not birth. I can see why some on MN might find it problematic but I think they'd be numpties.

eco out of Bath or out of the bath? see, dd was fine with her granny! And your boobs still work! Happy days. Your mention of goretex reminds me, I need some new walking boots. I ditched my 14 year old pair the other day, shortly before a stomp around a national trust mud/sheep poofest on Sunday and muddied up my fashion boowets. Reminds me, I had size 7 feet when I was 14. How am I only 5'6"?!

interesting about the values we project onto our kids. I'm not so convinced that academic achievement is the be all and end all. Four of the brightest people I know dropped out of uni. We have several doctors (not medical) in the family, and a fair few with no qualifications who do just fine. I for one just want ds to do no harm and be happy. DH is under a lot of strain at work right now and the resulting stress (not to mention that caused by cars and mortgages) has rather shone a light on our values, so we're trying to get them in check while he's still a young un. Work in progress clearly.

The panda is brand new. Exciting! And white. I'm considering an Italian name (primitivo?) but car is being fetched from Barnsley, so maybe a good old Yorkshire type name. Ida? Florence? Am now just working through all my great aunties searching for something suitable.

Ooh, a Panda! My dad had one years ago, I always thought it was a very cute little car. Is yours one of the ancient ones, Plonk, or the newer, slightly more streamlined type?

Went to bed at nine. Woke up at half five, fully rested. 8am now. Fartypants is still asleep. Hmm.

Still a while to wait for potty training. There is a checklist in the book. They need to be able to follow simple instructions, and sit still for several minutes. Hah!

Right, now that breakfast is out the way...

Agreed that academic achievement is not the be all and end all. But whatever a child's level of aptitude for academia, they need teachers capable of teaching them things at the appropriate level. Otherwise it's all too easy to slide into boredom and disengagement, and that does no child any favours. Admittedly I don't yet know how academically inclined Fartypants will be. That's why I want her to go to a school that will teach her well whatever her ability.

eco I'm so glad that everything is still fine and dandy with your milk supply, and I bet those cuddles were heavenly!! DS is aware of when we go past places he knows. If I dare to drive past my parents' house without going in, he'll get very upset. And when we go past the field where the horses are, he proclaims "bobbos" at me. It's amazing how they develop an understanding of things like that.

Yes, DS was an EMCS baby so I figure, I already have the scar so why not next time? Would you consider it if there was a baby no 2?

plonk Happy Panda day to you!

yummy I'm not exactly a homemade guru so making something would be interesting. I plan on looking on pinterest and giving out various homemade bath salts or chutneys

worse how has today been? I hope you're out of the pantry.

DS has developed poser-status. He now hands me my phone so that I can take a photo of him doing this face My phone album is full of him smiling at the camera. And he always has to look at them afterwards to make sure they're acceptable. Like mother, like son.

Something why thank you! It's black and white. As it should be.

Stormy you are completely right of course, the environment must support all abilities across all ages. I'm just a bit apprehensive given most teachers I know are really struggling to deliver the lessons they know are best for the kids. I really hope we see substantial change in the next 3 years!

Good day here. Have just been to fetch DS from nursery and been told his speech is very good, so I'm having one of those embarrassing proud parent moments and telling everyone about it. New car is fab. It's the first car I've ever owned myself (rather than had foisted upon me by well meaning but coddling parents) and that's a good feeling. On the other hand I've an evening of ironing, and apparently our survey will be with us tonight. And against advice we've given our notice on the rental today (with the proviso that he won't be able to let it again this side of christmas, so if we're desperate we could pay an extra week). This will probably come to bite us in the arse, as there's no going back from this, and we're learning the definition of 'the squeaky wheel gets the most grease' where solicitors are concerned. Best go, DS grumpy and the ironing beckons!

Morning all.

Yummy I got no sleep yesterday, none overnight and 3 hours today. It's a bloody good job those newborn months prepared me for survival !

Eco there's only 4 adults and a toddle so not massive and DM will be doing the turkey because she's the queen of making it taste more like chicken amazing! Both Delia and Nigella will be consultant, and perhaps Lady Berry.

Plonky I too love a Panda. DH and I used to pick a new place in Italy to visit for a few days every year and always had one as our hire car so we could go on our annual 'Panda Adventure'. Good times!

So a run down on sections/birth choices while I'm in work mode:

If you've had a previous section currently in most places you get the choice of whether you go for a VBAC (vaginal birth after caesarean) or elective CS although some places are stopping offering if you've had a completely straightforward section and have no increased risks for VBAC. If you've had one previous straightforward section and not got into advance labour your chances of having a successful vaginal delivery are 75%, if you've had a previous section and a previous vaginal delivery it's 90% and of you've got into advanced labour or to fully dilated it's somewhere in between. That does changes slightly depending on the reason you had your section. Someone who had failure to progress at 3cm is more likely to end up with a section than someone who had normal progress but was sectioned for fetal distress.

The risks and benefits of both for that pregnancy are fairly equal but if you're planning to have more than 2 babies then you're better off with a VBAC. The risks of VBAC are uterine rupture (0.5% risk if you're not induced), increased risk of needing transfusion (risk increased by 1%), more likely to have emergency section than someone in labour with first baby, needing continuous monitoring in labour so more difficult to mobilise (although this is decreasing now that many places have wireless monitoring). Mums are more at risk of vaginal prolapse after vaginal birth. Babies are more likely to be born with low cord pHs and have transient low oxygen levels after labour. Elective section is increased risk of damage to bowel, bladder etc (1-2%), placenta becoming stuck to scar in future pregnancies and therefore increased risk of haemorrhage and hysterectomy after 2 previous sections, babies are more likely to have breathing difficulties requiring SCBU admission (2-3% vs 1%).

As for 3rd degree tears, the national guidelines are that if someone is at all symptomatic of their tear in next pregnant they should be offered elective section due to the increased risk of further damage and long term symptoms. If someone isn't symptomatic and had a small 3rd degree they needn't be offered ELCS but there is an increased risk of another 3rd degree tear although very unlikely.

That's my obstetrician bit for the day!!

I'm now in the bath and scared of dropping the ipad so I'll be back once I'm clean!!

I've screenshotted that betty I can imagine that coming in very handy later on. You're a diamond to have on this thread. I hope sleep is on the cards for you tonight.

The rest of you are all diamonds too.

Now I need to go and win lots of money with my mum at bingo! Because we're old biddies

Very useful Betty, thank you! Looks like SIL's chances of a successful VBAC would be good then - first time round it was all going fine (albeit agonising) until a foot slipped out first, whereupon they shoved the foot back up and whisked her off to the operating theatre. I remember being surprised when she was first checked out in hospital and was a lot less dilated than I expected (based on contraction timings). Would the lack of pressure from baby's head mean slower dilation?

Exchange with Fartypants this morning:
F: Bitch!
Me: Er, no.
F: Bitch peas!
Me: You've just had breakfast.
F: Mummy Bitch peeeeeeas!
We really need to work on the pronunciation of biscuit!

That's hilarious Stormy! Yep that would indeed explain slow progress. The best cervical dilatation is down to even constant pressure from a firm surface on the cervix and the crown of the head is best for that which is why babies that are facing mum's bum (OA) have the most straightforward labours and deliveries. If they're facing upwards (OP or back to back) it's a less even surface and wider diameter as the head doesn't tuck in as well that was and breeches are soft and therefore don't get good pressure on the cervix. It's also why breaking someone's waters in labour often speeds things up, because the bag of membranes is soft.

Off to bed. Night night.

Argh! We've woken to a very vomit ours boy . He was really hungry first thing so had a bottle if milk that was going down a storm and then it quite dramatically made a reappearance. A bath and full change later we gave him a small sippy cup of water and watched as it happened again . He's starving but I daren't give him anything just now. Will be gently offering tiny sips/syringes of water but as we've not been through a sickness bug yet with him your tips are gratefully received!

Vomitus - god I hate the way it will correct stuff way after you've got it right.

Ooh Wotta my sympathies. Stay away from the milk!! Plain toast, puréed Apple with nothing fancy added, bananas, and rice are all fine apparently. It's BRAT and seems to work for vomitty folk. Never given ds rice after a tummy bug though, toast seems more healingy. Don't let him have lots at once, tiny mouthfuls. We've found that whenever ds had too much water/toast it didn't stay down and exacerbated the illness. Small amounts of chocolate really do help!

More of the same old here. House nightmare, discovered neither pushchair fits in Tiberius so desperate to hawk one of the others and have mistakenly entered the world of Pram Huns. Terrifying. But ds is sleeping better. 12 hours last night with nary a peep! I suspect he's beginning to drop his nap though... Again, terrifying.