Graduated Elderberries

[HazleNutt]

It's time to move to Post-Natal clubs.

mother I quite agree, was watching some old Friends episodes and Carol was giving birth in about 5 minutes, not a drop of sweat or hair out of place. I quite preferred the "Coupling" version with "Get me the FUCKING EPIDURAL!!!"

I still get upset every time I think about my birth experience. Yes, it was short, 5 hours, a couple of pushes and a few small stitches. But I was there, chewing the pillow and my arm and thinking that if those are contractions with epidural, then there is absolutely no way I could ever manage labour without. I did try to mention a few times that this epidural made no difference whatsoever (and was on a drip, so contractions every minute), but nurses kept fobbing me off that oh no, it's normal that it hurts a little. And then later I hear other people describing how they got the epidural, had a nap, read some magazines - ah, so that's how it was supposed to be! Whereas I was hooked up on monitors, so couldn't move around, with drip induced contractions and no pain relief whatsoever.

Well, I still want another one but am already practising how to say in French "No, I will not climb on that bed, I was fine on the floor", "no I am not pushing on my back with my legs in stirrups, have you no idea about anatomy and gravity??" and "Get the bloody anesthesist back here right now!!!"

alex the controlled crying is not for me, at least not at this age. But once V is in his own room (probably this week) we will try to send DH to comfort him instead of me - not so much hoping that it will improve V's sleep, but it might improve mine

alex V is usually a little more sleepy after his jabs.

I agree hazel, thinking about the birth still upsets me. Also as my oh only got their afterwards he didnt see the shit hit the fan (not literally), he didnt see me gradually reduced to crying quietly as I was simultaniously 1)shaved 2)catheterised 3)had bp taken 4)hooked up to monitor 5)had canula put in, all while contracting and recovering from the pain of the surgeon attempting to break my waters and 'helpfully' manually stretching my cervix to 4cm. He still thinks a section is the easier option, wish he saw the lead up so he knows there was nothing easy about it.

Alex I guess that as someone is going to the baby it is better than leaving the baby to cry alone. I actually get quite emotional when people talk about controlled crying/cry it out, the thought of leaving H to scream and scream until he is so tired and sad that he gives up and falls into an exhausted sleep really upsets me, I don't know how people can do it. They must be much more hardened than I am and I'm not one of these women who runs in and picks baby up as soon as he makes a sound, most of the time if H is grizzling and whining in his crib me rolling him onto his side, or holding my hand by his face is enough to settle him, I do want him to know I'm there for him though.

Sorry realise that is quite an essay.

Oh meant to say alex, H was ok after his jabs, I did pre dose him with calpol though. He struggled a few hours later with bad tummy ache from the oral one so on wednesday (when he has his next jabs) I plan to give gripe water before and after to try and counteract that. I also went out with a friend after his jabs, thi k being walked in the pram helped him sleep of any initial effects.

Isn't it a shame that the only Mum on here who got a birth anywhere close to what she wanted was Janey with her ELCS. We have all recovered and have lovely healthy babies, which is the most important outcome, but it makes me wonder what is the point in antenatal classes going through all the birth choices and decisons you are allegedly able to make when in reality you get very little choice but to go along with how the HCP's want to get the baby out.

Hazle I still feel angry on your behalf that your epidural failed. The amount of pain I was in before mine took effect, I really don't think I could of carried on at that level. Not that you had a choice I suppose, but how absolutely horrendous for you.

Alex as I understand it, CIO is when the baby is left alone for hours until they stop crying, but with CC there is usually some parental presence while still not giving in to what the baby wants/needs. The Con of Controlled Crying.

Agreed Cavort, perhaps the thing that upset me the most (apart from the crappy aftercare) was that we were in no way prepared for everything that went wrong.

Hazle that sounds appalling :( would a birth debrief before you get upduffed with number two help do you think?

Had an interesting discussion with two friends the other week about births. None of us had pleasant experiences, two out of three needed forceps, the third only escaped them by minutes. One was left to push for 5 hours being told she 'wasn't doing it right' - it turned out the umbilical cord was so short it kept bungeeing the baby back.

Part of the appeal for number two for me is the chance to have a better birth (although I now know that it's a total lottery).

alex my DD and another baby I know both had a tender tummy from the oral rotavirus vaccine. In my DD's case not touching her tummy helped, and though she was a bit grizzly a lot of sleep and cluster bf helped her.

At hazle - you deserve a medal.
And that poor woman with the shorter umbilical cord!!!
A friend who gave birth a few months ago was told by the midwife that if she asked for pain relief one more time, she (the midwife) wouldn't be back and would leave her to labour on. She eventually gave birth without pain relief and tore badly
I have to say the midwives and consultants in my case (apart from the sneaky one) were excellent, and my birth troubles were despite them. They really did everything they could for me.

I completely agree Zombies. My birth was far from desirable - 5 day very painful latent labour and very little sleep followed by discovery of bradycardia during routine monitoring meaning it was all systems go to get baby out. They broke my waters and allowed labour to progress on its own with close monitoring, but when it came to pushing they needed her out ASAP so I had to have episiotomy, forceps and a room full of people, BUT in spite of all that I was very pleased with my care. I was consulted at every point and it was made sure I fully understood what was going on at all times and what the likely next step was which really made me feel at ease.

That is absolutely outrageous about the way your friend was spoken to. Who the fuck do some of these MW's think they are speaking to an already distressed woman like that? It is your fundamental human right to be given pain relief during labour and it can only be refused on sound medical grounds. My Sister wasn't happy with the first MW she had while in labour so she complained and got a different much nicer one assigned to her.

brave I happened to have my own ob-gyn delivering V and he did admit at the 6-week check-up that the epi indeed didn't work. That helped, to know that I was not some kind of a wimp who couldn't manage when it "hurts a little".
I'm blaming myself mostly though, as I'm normally strong-willed and opinionated and could have easily told what I wanted to do and what not, but at that time just allowed to be bossed around.
I know better next time. Already feeling sorry for the hospital staff, they will have to deal with a bitch from hell who won't do anything she does not want to.

At least they are very happy to offer epidurals here. I happened to read an old thread (www.mumsnet.com/Talk/childbirth/1147361-Anyone-else-tricked-out-of-epidural/AllOnOnePage) where hundreds of women wrote that they were not given one even though they asked. I found it especially shocking that so many were lied to and told that it's too early/too late/everybody busy etc.
An anesthesist described how she was giving the epidural to a woman who asked what was the emergency that kept the anesthesist busy for the past 4 hours, since she had been asking for the epidural. There was no emergency, anesthesist had been surfing the net, the midwife just didn't call her and lied to the woman in labour.

That is true that some women have an awful time re pain relief over here. I was actually the one turning an epidural down (tho ended up being the emergency and needing an anesthetist in theatre).

I definitely agree that first time mums get a doubly raw deal - routinely patronised and don't know how to stand up for themselves. Next time I will also be bitch from hell somewhat more assertive lol

I think I was fairly lucky in terms of labour. I did get the Epi and it did work. The post natal was a bit shit but that was it. I was told I was good at pushing and had I practised it - I then said well I have a poo everyday, does that count?
We had L in our bed for the last two nights and she slept beautifully. I really don't know what to do.
Dh thinks she will benefit from having a bottle of formula at night. I really need help to think straight. I feel I am failing her if I give her formula and just can't bear the thought of it. I know I have enough milk and the only reason I would give her formula would be for our comfort rather than hers. What do you all think?
Alex L was feeling very sorry after herself after first lot of jabs and tbh I felt awful too!!! But I'm sure S can manage a lunch date!

Lol very much in the same boat here re nights. I want to keep breastfeeding because it's so much easier, especially when I go back to work.

Went to have bloods taken this morning and the HCA started telling me how her kids slept through after she gave up at 4/5 months and that 'well you've given him the best start...'

Bloody hell I didn't ask you!

Feel very torn. Am I being selfish carrying on bf?? I feel your pain Lol.

cav will be here with links but afaik, there is no link between giving the baby formula and them sleeping better.

Alex - after both 8 and 12 week jabs Miles slept through only times ever up until last week and was totally fine otherwise. Same with all the Nct mums.

lol - in my experience formula before bed made absolutely no difference to M's sleep. Do it if you want to, but don't do it for sleep as I honestly think that's a fallacy. M has slept the same whether he has a bottle of expressed or formula before bed. Have to say that feeding from a bottle, rather than the breast, did make an immediate difference to his sleep when he was tiny as I think he got too tired and sleepy breastfeeding so wouldn't fill up.

Cavort - I know, it's true, I do feel very grateful for that. Got my elcs - and weirdly needed it due to M flipping to transverse breech - and it was brilliant. Worst part for me was when they manually turned him round to feet first by ECV beforehand - OUCH - but I had no choice as it was impossible to get him out in any way with the way he was lying... However the next three days with him in SCBU then swiftly moved to NICU were I think the worst of my life. But that was all due to the way he was lying too. But the birth itself was bloody amazing (sorry) - lovely staff, party atmosphere almost. Even when the spinal started to wear off and I could start moving my legs again, despite being pretty damn painful it was fine as the anaesthetist gave me gas (to quote her - not the 'watered down' gas and air women in labour have, but the 'neat stuff'!) and said she could knock me unconscious within five seconds if I needed it, which made it so much more bearable. We'd been warned he would come out 'flat' and wd need help to breathe because of being transverse so even that tense moment whilst they got him to breathe wasn't as bad as it would have been if we'd been unprepared. Thoroughly recommend an elcs. All seemed totally under control and I trusted all those wonderful people looking after me implicitly. Embarrassingly the morphine also made the first few hours of Miles' time in NICU more bearable as I was totally off my head quite relaxed - told DP I felt very serene about it all

Oh and for our first dance at the wedding we're having the song that was playing whilst he was born, so I think that shows what a wonderful experience it was. Sorry all.

Spinal wore off as they were sewing me up, forgot to mention that bit. Only on one side though weirdly. Ouchie.

janey my spinal travelled upwards and I ended up with numb arms and kept dozing off on the table. My OH was getting a bit worried as I kept snoozing but the mw knew what it was and they sat me up in bed as soon as they were able which was amazing as I felt partly crippled only being able to move my head.

lol H is on formula now and I still feel guilty about it, the hv's are all happy enough about it though. I can assure you it makes bugger all difference to sleep though! Janey is right, that's just an urban myth I think

So how many here would like to have another DC?
I am quite sure I would foolhardy

Yes yes!!
I'd try again now but you're supposed to wait at least 12 months post cs (used to be 3 years apparently?!) and then I'm getting married in sept and want to drink on my wedding day. So will start trying then! Been clucky since the moment I had M though. Weird.

Lol I haven't got any links that prove FF makes no difference to a baby's sleep, but I definitely remember reading it in a couple of places but can't remember where. I think I read that if you are struggling with BFing or your baby is 'failing to thrive' (hate that term) then switching to formula may help with sleeping, but if BF is going well then it won't make any difference. You either have a sleeper or you don't and feeding method makes little difference to a crap normal sleeping baby like mine. FWIW I don't think there's anything wrong with giving a bottle of formula at night if it suits you, it's personal choice and you would have nothing to feel guilty about. However if you don't want to then maybe get your DH to have a read of this article to maybe help convince him to encourage carrying on with the boob.

Oh yes, and Zombies I have been on the fence about it since E was born, but I am slowly coming round to the idea of another one. We need to move house first though so maybe we would start trying after next Christmas (assuming we have found a house by then!)

Ah, we can tell the truth about birth now we're in postnatal! Mine was bloody horrendous, I still feel traumatised by it, I'm not sure I'll ever be able to have another child and I think every woman should be offered counselling afterwards.

Oh and welcome back Zombies, nice to see you.

Ah there you are Purple. I was about to send out a dinghy to see if you were under several feet of flood water.

Yeah my birth was a bit of a nightmare, but weirdly I'm remembering it all much more positively as time goes on! The doctor and mv handled it badly as they had other priority cases they had to deal with, so I was left way too long between being checked for dilation and having my epidural and induction drip, and I shouldn't have been left so long on the drip either - I'd dilated much faster than they realised in the second stage and felt the pressure of her head even with the epidural but was repeatedly told I wouldn't be anywhere near yet after such a slow first stage. I found her heart rate dropping terrifying, the worst bit. I started shaking ridiculously when they said they had to get me ready for an emergency C because her heart rate was dropping too much but then they finally checked, panicked and said I had two contractions to get her out in as her head was right there. I'm very grateful my epidural worked even though I really didn't want one, I feel for anyone who has probs with the epidural. I REALLY didn't want the induction drip hormones but who knows how it would have gone without it - especially as they didn't check dilation again first so I'll never know how I was doing naturally although I suspect is gone quite far naturally. I'm also very grateful for the fact I got her out in three contractions. I didn't like the pressure they put on my labour as I was 42 weeks and my water had broken, but I do understand on paper that instantly makes it high risk. I also felt sick and got a really high temp straight after but was so happy it went down without ABs and also glad that Sophia loved the boob as soon as she came out. For next time I would insist they check the dilation if there is a large gap between the last check and getting the drip and epidural, that's my biggest lesson learnt. Great result at the end though and I remember the moments when DH and I laughed in early labour.

S and I have had such a lovely weekend and she's been brilliant today, chilled and happy. The night is young but I just love it when she's like this, sorry to be cheesy but after all the crying sessions it's just great enjoying it so much.

As it took us 16 months ttc before, we're going to just see what happens. I'd like to enjoy S's first summer so will prob leave it to chance from around September - same as janey! Scary we might have another so soon but I think there are benefits to doing the baby stage all at once eeeeeek