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Politics

David Cameron calls benefit claimants - welfare scoungers.

122 replies

hornofplenty · 19/06/2010 17:14

I was told by a friend that he had said this but I could not believe it was true

The friendly cover is slipping.

But not to worry he is not going to make "welfare scroungers" or the rich pay, oh no it is up to public sectors to pay us out of recession.

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hornofplenty · 19/06/2010 17:37

Why on earth would the prime minister, in a national paper, call people benefit scroungers in a tongue in cheek manner?

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longfingernails · 19/06/2010 17:38

ProfessorLayton Well there has to be a balance - 80% cuts to 20% tax rises worked in Canada and is the model proposed here - though our deficit is much more severe, and global economic growth is much slower now than it was then.

I do think there is a balance in terms of timing. I was disappointed that the election was basically about £6bn - which is less than a rounding error in the national finances - but cutting more than about £25bn a year is too much in my opinion.

I do also hope that there will be real growth incentives in the budget next week. Low corporation tax, low business rates and low national insurance will do more to spur private sector growth and jobs than a thousand individual schemes.

sarah293 · 19/06/2010 17:39

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toccatanfudge · 19/06/2010 17:39

he wasn't - he was saying (IMO) that while people would like to think we can sort out the deficit by just tackling the filthy rich and those who are quite happy to scrounge off the state for their entire lives we can't.

ProfessorLaytonIsMyLoveSlave · 19/06/2010 17:41

There's a hard core of Tory voters who really do seem to think that all a Conservative government needed to do to deal with the budget deficit was to cut benefits for people who didn't need them -- I think those are the group he's trying to soften up with these soundbites.

Rather scarily, there are quite a few who don't have an issue with cutting benefits even from people who do need them, on the basis that it's their lookout if they haven't made enough NI contributions etc. A FB friend who is the most right-wing person I know in real life appears positively socialist when I see him having conversation threads with his friends.

herbietea · 19/06/2010 17:41

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toccatanfudge · 19/06/2010 17:41

in my view it would be FABULOUS if we could just target the filthy rich and the scroungers and sort the financial mess out - fact is we can't. Everyone is going to be hit in some way or another.

hornofplenty · 19/06/2010 17:43

I agree with you there toccatan. I am thinking of handing in my notice and going abroad for a few years.

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DSM · 19/06/2010 17:45

'Middle England' eh? Does that mean us Scots won't be affected?

Excellent.

hornofplenty · 19/06/2010 17:46

Yes DSM you get off Scot free

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toccatanfudge · 19/06/2010 17:47

DSM

wannaBe · 19/06/2010 17:54

I agree with toccata.

And tbh people turning themselves into marters off the back of comments that are clearly not directed at them is getting really boring.

There are benefits scroungers. Lots of them. Anyone who believes that scroungers (and we're not talking about people claiming fraudulantly, but people who are perfectly capable of working for a living and choose not to and are supported by the state in doing so) are in a tiny minority or do not exist is very naive.

If you are not working because you cannot due to illness/disability/caring for a disabled child/relative/you have lost your job and are struggling to find another one then you are not a benefits scrounger. But you are not helping the attitudes of some people that all people on benefits are scroungers if you then stand up for all people claiming benefits and deny the existance of benefits scroungers.

Equally there are people who do not pay the required amount of tax they should - and again it's not fraud, for the most part it is facilitated by loopholes in the system that enable those with creative accountants and enough money (and by enough money we are generally talking about more money than anyone on here is ever likely to see) to do so. But actually, these are in the minority here. The difference though between the "super rich" and the "benefits scroungers" is that the amount of money the super rich earn is signifficant. But - less than 10% of the population earns over £50000. Less than 5% of the population earns over £100000, and less than 1% of the population earns over £150000. So by taxing the super rich you are not going to gain signifficant revenue. In fact there is evidence to suggest that by taxing the super rich you lose revenue as many of them will leave the country taking all of their money with them. And like it or not, the super rich do contribute - through the products they buy, the property they buy, and the related taxes and vat that is applied to those goods which is signifficant when you consider what some of them spend on material wealth.

By contrast the benefits scroungers, while almost certainly making up more than 1% of benefits claimants, are generally not claiming signifficant amounts of money individually, but collectively their claims most likely do make up a signifficant amount. However, while you will again generate some revenue from ensuring those who are capable of work, work, on the whole, many of them will enter into low-paid jobs, and thus will not be generating signifficant tax revenue either.

Which is why you can't just put the problem on to one sector of society - everything has to give. Yes, the public sector needs to give back something. The public sector is stuffed to over capasity with paper pushers, too much management and not enough administration in many departments. Equally there needs to be a way of making the so-called super rich contribute more, and similarly there needs to be a way of making the "benefits scroungers" take responsibility for their own lives instead of relying on the state to do it, so that those who are genuinely in need don't have to give so much.

smallwhitecat · 19/06/2010 17:56

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toccatanfudge · 19/06/2010 17:57
toccatanfudge · 19/06/2010 17:59

oh I'm definitely expecting the worst - I'm going to Morrisons tomorrow afternoon to do a MASSIVE shop, as much as I can shove in my freezer and cupboards stock up what I can before the VAT increases.

hornofplenty · 19/06/2010 18:09

I a clearly wrong and sorry, best get back to my work while I have a job.

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bytheMoonlight · 19/06/2010 18:19

Agree with toccatan and wannabe.

People should really try and read things before making off the cuff comments. Like Wannabe says, those jumping straight in, making themsleves marters, are just showing themsleves incapable of reading and unserstanding an article.

No you are not a benefit scrounger if you are claiming benefit for the right reasons, you know you are not and deep down you know Cameron isn't calling you one - so stop with the 'Tory boy typical behaviour' rant and playing the victim beacuse frankly its boring.

And I say this as a left wing tory hater!

sarah293 · 19/06/2010 18:20

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hornofplenty · 19/06/2010 18:21

How am I a martyr, I don't claim any benefits at all and my husband is a higher rate tax payer?

I also voted tory.

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StarOfValkyrie · 19/06/2010 18:21

If there are benefit scroungers, then why do they do it?

I think that would be a much better target for any government, to find out WHY it is happening and then address that!

And actually, benefits don't cost the tax payer anywhere near as much as lost revenue to tax avoiders or evaders or even the banks recent antics!

herbietea · 19/06/2010 18:22

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smallwhitecat · 19/06/2010 18:26

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toccatanfudge · 19/06/2010 18:26

I dunno Riven - I'm just thinking worst case.......

and if there's no VAT on food no problem I'll actually have a decent choice for what to cook on the days I'm not up to cooking properly and won't have to do a shop for ages

toccatanfudge · 19/06/2010 18:31

well actually smallwhite - if you look at this (haven't been able to find last tax years - but it does give a general idea).

The figures for the benefits that people get up in arms about - the "scroungers" (ESA, JSA and to some extent IS) are actually a relatively small amount out of the Budget pot.

OBviously housing benefit and council tax benefit is claimed by those who work on low incomes as well so no exclusive to the "scroungers".

Therefore the figures invovled with scroungers is actually relatively low compared to the rest of the DWP's budget, hence Cameron saying that we CAN'T just target those and the rich and hope to sort it all out.

bytheMoonlight · 19/06/2010 18:37

If my point doesn't fit you Horn, then obv. I wasn't refering to you.

I think what David Cameron should actually be saying is that along with hitting the middle eaners, as always happens regardless of whose in power, he will also go after the benefit scroungers and the rich the tax avoiders - might be a better way to spin it.

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