im so anxious about threats to cut ctc...

[em83]

god i feel so depressed about the threatened cut to ctc, i have been following the news religiously about this new emergency budget, and have just read an updat which was posted tonigha 22.10 which states that incomes £30.000 or over will not be entitled to ctc

im so pissed off with this and feel so anxious

If you're getting childcare costs then you will be getting more than £545 a year and so wouldn't be affected by lowering the threshold at which the family element is withdrawn.

are you sure about the family element only being effected [and not the childcare bit]? I havn't seen in the media there being any distinction being made, or anywhere else for that matter? By the way, I hope and fingers crossed you are right!

Thanks TWFU that is the most logical way that it can be done and if it is reduced every April say then this would alleviate a lot of worries and would not be so bad on the purse strings.

Heres hoping that they see it that way as well

Still don't see why people in work earning a good salary need benefits?

I take the point that there might need to be some sort of tapering off over time, to allow people to adjust but reject the idea that welfare is only being used for when things go tits up.

Plenty of people are planning on having children and using CTCs et al to help them do so. This is what New Labour intended to happen and is why it wanted more than simply "the poor" to get such benefits. By increasing the number of clients, it sought to enhance its electoral chances - a cynical manipulation of the welfare system is ever there was one.

And as for the idea of lifting children out of "poverty" - it is a relative concept and based on people's earnings relative to others...extended to its logical conclusion, my getting a pay rise or bonus makes you poorer, relatively speaking at any rate.

bluecardi what would you class as a good salary exactly ?

The point is if you deduct the childcare cost, it is no longer a good salary and can even mean you can no longer afford to work. Definatly think this government is going to force women out of work.

I'm very worried about what it means for us - we have two kids and rely on the CTC to help us pay for childcare -without it I wouldn't be able to afford to work

my husband is disabled and cannot work nor look after the children. I work in the public sector and am facing a pay freeze (even if I get to keep a job given the public sector cuts) so we are facing

less tax credit
less child benefit
higher income tax
higher NI
frozen ill health pension for DH
increase on VAT
lower income for me

I don't claim anything and never have so I probably don't understand the system BUT
I presume the level of Tax credits are the same wherever you live in the country.

This could explain why some people seem to manage nicely on an average salary and others struggle. I mean it costs £800 in my area to rent a 2 bed flat and at least £1100 for a house. As housing is most peoples main expense it doesn't seem right that the current system doesn't take this into account.

I wonder without govt interference via tax credits whether wages and rents would be at affordable levels. I remember something about demand and supply when I did a A Level Economics back in the dark ages!

I don't think saying that people should control the number of their children makes you some kind of fascist.

We are a middle income family, we can afford one child so we have one. We would like another but we can't afford it so we don't have the child. I don't think someone with my kind if income should think we want a child that we cannot afford - I know we will claim child benefit and tax credits.

In a similar manner I would love to be a SAHM but I can't afford to be, so I go to work. Someone should not be able to claim benefits to fund a lifestyle choice such as staying at home - unless you are a carer.

Tax credits have added to a sense of entitlement and enabled big companies to pay the working poor a pittance.

If people earning an above average wage need benefits to survive something has gone very wrong.

One of the reasons that is costs so much to rent or buy a house is because people have inflated their salaries with tax credits/ child benefit. Landlords/ estate agents can only charge what people are willing to pay. Tax credits are great for the poorest in society but a poison to most.

what pisses me off is that there is no mention of cutting the benefits of people who work and only have more kids to get more money !!!!

i knoe of a family around here who have 7 kids and 1 on the way who have never nor intend to ever work !!!
who seem to get rewarded with free milk tokens,maternity grants and all other freebies

I would like to see child benefit only ever paid to 2 children and no more - for anyone.

i would like to think the 'cuts' will be fairly worked out. anyone remember the poll tax riots? we don't just take anything as a country, takes alot to rile us though.

Agree hornofplenty but then I'm an evil person who thinks the the govt shouldn't extend any financial help beyond 2 children.........

It is not evil it is realism, sure people have stories and reasons, but we need to get a grip on this.

This is like going back to the 80s - it is an attack on working women as most working women were able to go back to work because of the child tax credits.

Also, it feels like milk snatching - I am sure they could have found other ways to claw back the money than subtracting it to children - and lowish income families.

This is not a budget decision this is a moral crusade imo. Everyone knows that a family earning 35k gross in the South of England is hardly rich; so this is not an attack on the rich or the superfluous, is an attack on the working classes and low middle classes.

In the meantime all the talk of banking seems to have died a death....

I am just waiting now for the word privatisation to sneak in, back to the Thatcher years I think...............

I am not disputing that it is expensive to live in London, I cannot afford to live there and have accepted that.

But the average wage in London is 30% higher than elsewhere in the UK. The average male London wage is 34K and 21K for women. Again what has gone so wrong in society if people on an above average wage need benefits. Do we just let living costs spiral and spiral as we top of incomes.

As I said above I can only afford one child, I don't feel like a victim of a moral crusade or that anything has been snatched. I am just living within my means

Tax credits may have allowed women to go back
to work but maybe not everyone will agree that's a good thing. A study of full time working mumms showed that a high percentage ( (can't remember the exact number but think it was at least two thirds) would rather stay at home with their children.

The trouble again with all this govt
interference help is that it messes up market forces. If people couldn't afford mortgages/rents without govt help they proably wouldn't have spiralled out of control.

My dad was able to buy a house and support a family on a carpenters wage back in the 60's. In the South East.

not sure that tax credits have enabled big companies to pay the working poor a pittance?

Isn't it that tax credits have supported the working poor, because the big companies like massive profits and so do their wealthy share holders?

also, landlords/estate agents can charge what they like because alot of social housing was sold off and has not been replaced quick enough if at all. And because people need homes and take what they can and will pay what they have to in order to have a home and take what ever state it is in to boot; for fear of rent increasing.

lastly, not sure about families being rewarded by a milk token etc. Children need nutrition and a chance in life from what ever background and from whatever number of siblings they have.
personnaly, I don't resent a child a milk token or two etc coming out of my taxes, but I do resent wages of say £4k+ per month coming out of my taxes, only then for those very rich people to make decisions on people who are living on such little amounts in comparison.

Why all the talk about SAHM, as if these cuts only affect 2 parent families where one parent is working?

Working 40 hours a week at minimum wage only equates to an annual salary of just over £12k per annum!

Pretty fecking poor in my book.

They have enabled the working poor to work at a pittance because if those people were not topped up by tax credits I suspect they would not be in work.

You are right that people will pay what they have for a house, so give people on above average salaries so they can pay even more for housing.

I mentioned SAHM as someone above said she was worried about losing her TC and she was a SAHM.

Wubbly the money should be directed at those earning 12K a year or single parents 25K a year not middle income families.

hornofplenty, so what, you think these people on low incomes would be better off staying on benefits?

What do you consider a middle income? You see, a couple each working 40 hours a week earning just over the minimum wage will lose out under these proposals.

I consider a couple earning over 45-50K or a single person earning over about 27-33.

No wubbly I don't think that, I think the minimum wage should be lifted.

You're also seem to be suggesting that a single parent should be allowed to receive benefits at a level a married couple with one partner working cannot? Why?