Ending Child Benefit at 13- a tax on carers?

[SanctiMoanyArse]

Sorry, I did mention this elsewhere but not a very busy thread.

I get Frank Field'ds idea about stopping CB at 13 even if I don't support it

But do people realise that it's a tax on being a carer?

Thafter all-
child hits 13, you lose CB, can't cope financially, you can at least try to work / increase hours

Disabled child hits 13, you lose cb (and hrp?), you can't go out to work any more than when they were 12, you lose. (and HRP???)

As I say, tax on being a carer.

It's multiplied iof you have NT kids too: you can't replace the Cb with them any more than if they were disabved if you have caring responsibilities.

And typically the tiny provision they do have here (summer clubs) stops at 12.
Seems to penalise people who have no options to me.

so would sometrhing as simple as means testing it do?

Not for me, because DH earns too much (even though most of it goes to the mortgage).

Also, just think of the paperwork and the additional costs in means testing. Look at all the problems there have been with means testing tax credits...

I'd be happy for them to be means tested. And surely if the paperwork's already being done...would that include everyone or would people be missed?

So
... take away CB when children become most expensive (VAT on clothing/shoes, more expensive school uniforms, have you seen how much a teenage boy can eat?).
... make the child protection laws make it really awkward for anyone to employ an under 16.
... require parents to increase their hours t work just when it is most likely the children will go off the rails.

If at the same time they front load it to pay more to those with little children then that will certainly encourage those (few, but real) people who have children to get more money to have another one or more.

Sounds like a brilliant idea.

OK so the summer palcements end at 13; just as the CB would cease.

There is a leagl duty to assess for a carer to allow them to work: I had a chance of a job, waiting list was far too long to be assessed.

yes we get additional benefitsbut trust me- as a gradiuate they in no way compenasate for my lost potential earnings! Plus the fact that this sort of eventuality is what I paid NI for 20 yaers for, as did DH (DH was amade redundant: nowt to do with this but just a bit of bad luck that many are experienceing but does affect us also. he does not claim JSA; has started a small business and is retraining instead so still paying NI).

The fact is that we save the governemnbt money becuase if we weren't accepting of caring and the associated poverty then we would cost the Government far mroe; anything that oushes carers furtehr voer the edge means that mroe people will be relying on state care just to keep a roof over the otehr kdis ehads: therefore we are a group worthy of investment.

Also you say no other kids get that. Well you see qhen we had the boiys we did our sums and worked out what we could afford but our sums were done with 2 working parents. I had 23 jobs at one stage, loved it and the buzz I got. Charity fudnraiser by day and college admissions iin the evenings. Now my fflexibility has been removed. Crucially- and this is entirely what I disn't get beforehand- my choice. If we were hit by a cb cut before I wold have looked for a better job; now as ds1 can't use childcare then if I did that DH would have to cut his own workload which would help usa in what way? None.

I don't have issues with means testing (well i think a separate female income as intended is helpful to the most vulenerable) and I firmly expect that when dh's income rises agin we will fall into that bracket even if I don't get abck to work (and I am trying my best!). However I think that taxing then, as per CA, would probably work out cheaper admin wise.

Oh and LD stands for learning dificulty not a benefit; and DP's are paid only to meet specific costs arising from disability so why would a non disaabed person qualify? CA is well below optimim earning level (with my two disbaled kids wqorks out at @ 20p an hour for the 24/7 care we deliver).... if you work (luckily DH) you get a payment on TCs but the very poorest don't get that I understand..... summer palcements I have already suggested on another thread I would be happy to pay a small charge for as a user.

In fact it won;t hit us as a family hugely as we would just claim the council tax benefit we are entitled to and have refused to claim as long as we can cover from elsewhere- we'd have to. But lots of people would be very badly hit indeed and it's important these things are considered. We are not aprt of claimant culture people demonise: we are here by no choice of our own and earning every penny we get ten times over.

I don't think that you need to look very hard at the justification for stopping CB at 13 - it's just a way of saving money - a 28% cost saving per child, which is very significant.

Teenagers cost an awful lot more than babies!

More than £35 a day childcare Bonsoir? Totally ready to be corrected - our first isn't even due till next month - but i can't see a teenager costing that much tbh.

Pfff! You ain't seen nothing yet .

They need so many courses and clubs and clothes and computers and... and... and... I swear, it's horrendous!

Just imagine, for a moment, the day you take your 12 year old DS shopping for shoes - one pair of school shoes, one pair of trainers, one pair of Birkies/flip flops. Plus associated socks. So maybe £150. And then - bingo - two months later he complains his big toe is pushing at the end of his shoes - and you take him back to the shoe shop and he has grown a whole shoe size in 60 days . Another £150....

I want to make it clear that my issue here isn;t with the proposal: much s I do dislike it, as withe veryone else am going to have to suck up a lot I don't like.

I still woudl prefer a tax on it as the best option however.

I wanted to explain a few things in my alst post that weren't quite right: LD I emant the classical definiton of LD which is an IQ under 60; it's not hard to see that a child can be verys everely impaired without that- some physically, with aggression and processing delays as with ds1, or classic autism that means he struggles to communicate and zones out for syretches (being assessed next month for epilepsy). I reallised I was using sn terminology on a non SN are, sorry.

Also the summer clubs- not based on family inome; in fact places go (rightly) to the with working parents who need the childcare or people whose home lives are such a struggle that they cannot cope with the diability for prolonged lengths of time. we qualify because of the effect of having 2 autistic children plus one with dyspraxia (in no way the same with him but a + in the total scheme) and the way it prohibits us being part of the community, getting out and doing anything- in the summer it's usual for me not tov speak to an adult barring dh and my parents face to face for @ 8 weeks.

*Mary- have you appealed that DLA decision?'

Bonsoir I can indeed imagine: DS2's dyspraxia means he can wreck apir of shoes in a week (as could I as a child IIRC). I dread when he gets to the teen years......

SanctiMoanyArse - I haven't even applied. We're struggling even to get a statement for him, because he is good at Maths, and the extra time the school is spending on his literacy is paying off. He is functioning better and better in what is a very structured environment. What is hard to quantify is his meltdowns, anxieties and fears (in combination with MY meltdowns, as we are both on the spectrum). If I went to work, who would deal with that?

Mary, if you want help with that quantifying email: have done a few so some experience. We got DLA before statements so go for that anyway- Cerebra has a good website but again, am happy to help if I can. Youn know where I am.

Riv it may well be just Wales, it's paper only really though. My CM (we p[ay her to have ds4 a few housrs a week so I can sleep) has a child with AS that she can no longer physically haul into school as he's 15 and a foot taller; he never gets there before 11am and as a result she is being taken to court (and will lose her registration and job ) but the social services report she needs has been refused as theyc annot allocate a SW due to workloads. She's petrified what will happen, and I don't blame her. ANd as she's the only CM who will ahve ds3 if I do get a job (DS1 is the childcare issue) I'm a little narked as well with SSD on top of my annoyance at them for not helping her IYKWIM

My niece has worked since she was 16 - I thought that employers preferred them to university students because the minimum wage is so much lower?

She doesn't live anywhere near a university though so I guess it's different where you are Riven

We have a Uni on our doorstep, and it sees that students get all the work: I think thats because we have a fair summer tourism trafe and students offer help with tht from Easter.

But even students struggle now_ DH studies in a Uni and very few people on his ocurse have work; partly that is due to Uni maximising facillity space by scheduling course up until 7, but also verry simply becuae students from last 2 years still haven't found FT work and are filling the usual vacancies.

DH's work lucily is self employed so he can fit around study hours.