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Politics

Any Labour members care to start a discussion regarding the leadership election?

165 replies

MarionCole · 10/06/2010 07:38

Firstly, the email from Ray Collins which says "we have to make sure that those who share our values and beliefs are invited to have their say. That?s why we?ll shortly be taking out an advert in a national newspaper to invite them to join and to play their part." Does that mean they have changed the rules so that new members can vote?

I had a dream about Ed Miliband last night, I think it may be clouding my judgment.

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Prolesworth · 10/06/2010 10:52

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MarionCole · 10/06/2010 12:02

I am glad Diane is there and I suspect she might get a surprising level of support, I don't think she will make a great leader though.

Yesterdays hustings were interesting (as far as was broadcast on the news) as David M seemed to be standing by New Labour, which won't win my vote. Ed M was taking a far more interesting line. The media have obviously decided it's between those two as there was nothing broadcast from the other candidates. I really want to reserve judgment until I have heard what they have all had to say.

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Prolesworth · 10/06/2010 12:16

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claig · 10/06/2010 12:18

Balls is on the Daily Politics now. Very good, angering Andrew Neil and giving him a hard time. He is no pushover like the rest of them.

Prolesworth · 10/06/2010 12:21

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claig · 10/06/2010 12:29

I don't think she would anger Andrew Neil. He would find it quite easy against her. He got very angry with Balls, because Balls countered him on everything, stood his ground, and Neil was unable to get him on anything.

Prolesworth · 10/06/2010 12:32

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gingercat12 · 10/06/2010 12:34

I could not make up my mind yet. Will have a look at them at the hustings.

claig · 10/06/2010 12:34

yes you are right, she is clever and knows all the arguments, so nothing phases her.

jackstarbright · 10/06/2010 12:40

Have you Steve Bell's take on it in the Guardian - hilarious (sorry to lower the tone). Dianne enters the race

MarionCole · 10/06/2010 12:42

I thought Paxman gave her a patronisingly easy ride last night

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Prolesworth · 10/06/2010 12:42

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gingercat12 · 10/06/2010 12:48

PMSL

longfingernails · 10/06/2010 12:50

claig I think your pro-Ed Balls blinkers are telling.

He couldn't justify his EU migration control proposals. He made a gaffe when he basically said Labour didn't want to be in government. He didn't provide one single non-schools cut which he would make - not a line of argument that will wash for much longer. He denied briefing against other Labour politicians when everyone even vaguely connected with politics knows he did it all the time.

More fundamentally, he definitely didn't look "Prime Ministerial" during that. Imagine Ed Balls as he was there in a TV debate against Cameron and Clegg!

Ed Balls might speak the right language to reconnect Labour to the C2s but he just doens't connect with people. Tories would much rather be facing Ed Balls than Diane Abbott, despite her loony-left policies - because people actually like Diane.

Policy only becomes relevant if a political party is listened to. And no-one will listen to what Ed Balls has to say.

Interestingly Diane seems to have held her own and more at the New Statesman hustings yesterday - she seems to have been the star attraction. I can't help but feel that David Miliband will regret giving her his vote - not because she will win, but because she will force Labour to go far to the left of where it can win elections.

Prolesworth · 10/06/2010 12:50

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jackstarbright · 10/06/2010 12:54

Glad you like it. Have you noticed where Diane's right hand is? What's that meant to signify?

longfingernails · 10/06/2010 12:55

Pretty much no-one who watches Newsnight or This Week, or listens to the Today programme, is going to be a floating voter.

Connecting with ordinary people is much more important than beating Paxman or even winning at PMQs. Hague thrashed Blair regularly at the dispatch box but was rubbish in the election.

noyoucant · 10/06/2010 12:58

Which candidate gives Labour the best chance of winning the next election? The end.

Prolesworth · 10/06/2010 13:04

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longfingernails · 10/06/2010 13:09

noyoucant I think the answer to that is probably David Miliband - but that is, with respect, not the end.

There is of course policy. I am not sure Labour members are ready for another dose of Blairism taking their party. There is the whole civil liberties agenda, which was often championed by Labour in the past but has now been completely wrested away by the coalition.

But most importantly you also have to ask whether the candidate would make a good Prime Minister. Whether they have a history of being decisive. Whether their temperament is suited to the pressure. I don't think David Miliband fits the bill here.

These things are independent of party and political persuasion. Tony Blair was definitely Prime Ministerial. Gordon Brown was not. Attlee was definitely Prime Ministerial. So was Thatcher. So was Callaghan. Major was not.

noyoucant · 10/06/2010 13:10

Beliefs and values are worthless in perpetual opposition. Just ask Michael Foot. Which of his polices, quite a few of which I was sympathetic to, was he able to implement? What's the point in sincerely believing in something, and thinking that it will benefit society, if you don't do your best to try and put yourself in a position to actually be able to do something about it?

Politics is about the exercise of power. If you aren't in power then everything you do and say should be designed with getting back into power in mind.

Prolesworth · 10/06/2010 13:12

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stubbornhubby · 10/06/2010 13:13

Diane Abbot is great for diversity - she's the only one of the five who sends her child to private school

claig · 10/06/2010 13:14

Ed Balls would finish off Clegg and Cameron in debate. He is a fighter, he argues a case, he doesn't just make bland statements. He has years of experience in government, so he knows what he is talking about. Clegg is an empty bag of hot air, who can only repeat the mantras that his spin doctors have taught him, "fairness and new politics". Cameron is too polite, we saw in the TV debates that he couldn't even finish Brown off, which should have been a piece of cake given Labour's record. Ed Balls is far better than clumsy bumbling Brown. Ed Balls would be just as well briefed as Brown but he would be able to fight his corner.

Andrew Neil tried to make it look bad that Balls was a plotter against Blair. Frankly that endears him to me. Neil tried to make it look bad that Balls was a "thug" for Brown. But that is politics and shows that Balls is no pushover. Neil said that Blair came away from discussions with Balls feeling that he had been abused. But that shows that Balls argues his corner and didn't grovel to Blair. Neil tried to get Balls on the war, but Balls said that he was wrong in hindsight. Neil agreed with Balls on the graduate tax which sounds like a better policy than what happens now. He was adamant about negotiating about EU labour movement and sounded convincing. He argued for the independence of the Bank of England when many of his colleagues like Bliar were against it. He has his own convictions and the fact that Blairites like Campbell are not too keen on him is a plus point in my book.

Andrew Neil was exasperated by him, because Neil didn't managed to get him on any issue.

As one Labour commentator said, "it is better to be feared than liked". Balls will be feared because he is competent and as he said himself, he is capable of taking it to the Tories. Diane Abbott is liked and is amusing on the couch with Portillo, but she is not feared, because she doesn't pose any real threst. Clegg is universally liked by the media, but the public will soon tire of that empty bag of wind.

I would have thought that Labour voters are now looking for someone to fight the Tories. They don't need any more nice but dim leaders who will serve up another defeat. Gordon Brown was not liked, but he also lacked real fighting qualities. Balls is the only one of the candidates who has the qualities to pose a threat to the Tories, and will single-handedly dismantle the LibDems and calamity Clegg.

However, I still think that Labour will make the mistake of voting in the media's darling, David Miliband.

noyoucant · 10/06/2010 13:14

longfingernails I take you point to a degree. In fact the truly cyncial approach would be to now elect the best candidate in terms of winning an election and then dumping them post-election for the person best suited to leading the country, or to take Prolesworth's point, the best person to implement the core beliefs and values of the party.

I'm not suggesting that the best "election-winning" candidate would necessarily make the best PM candidate. But I just hope the Labour party learns from its past mistakes and does try to repeat the logic of the Tony Blair approach rather than the 'Longest Suicide Note in History' days of the '80s that helped mand the UK with 11 years of Thatcherism.