50% tax rate - unexpected consequence

[MollieO]

Ds not well so we ended up at the OOH service this afternoon. As it happens we saw our usual GP - knew that he did Saturdays OOH but didn't realise he also did alternate Sundays. He said he won't be doing them for much longer because of the 50% tax rate and associated loss of the basic rate personal allowance. Apparently 16 out of the 20 GPs who cover OOHs are also quitting. This is because doing OOH work puts them just into the 50% bracket but because of the tax effect sees them actually being paid nett very little for the work they do.

It means that we will lose an excellent local facility and see it replaced with locums (at least I assume that is what will happen at best, at worst the facility will be reduced). Unlike the current GPs the locums will have no connection with the existing GPs surgeries and I can only see that as a bad thing.

I'm not against the 50% rate (never likely to affect me) and had assumed it is only the 'very rich' who are affected. However the impact of its introduction will perhaps have a far wider effect than we like to think.

The main problem is the pisspoor job that was done of renegotiating GP's contracts.

Average salary for a Solicitor is 40-50k depending on which survey you look at.

GP Pay :-" However, a full time GMS or PMS practice partner can now expect to earn around £110,000 before tax, while a salaried GP earns on average £74,000"

So the Doctors at your surgery are doing pretty well already. They are making about twice the average for their profession.

i think 50pc is a bad idea too, just confiscate all the wealth (bar £1mn or so) from the top 0.02pc of earners and natioanlise banking including the channel islands money laundering scams...

Getting a bit dull sorting out the felt pens in the stationery cupboard being a high powered City financier Coolfonz?

sorting out the felt pens in the stationery cupboard..

you know, i think this would be DDs dream job...

DH would like it too.

(strike out doesn't C&P)

if the OP wants this to be about the 50% tax bracket - it's useless window-dressing.

if you earn in this bracket, you can probably arrange your finances to avoid it. That is why accountants get work from HNW individuals - it's worth paying £200 per hour for someone to reduce your tax bil. They more than get that back..

part of the machinery of avoiding it might be not to pay tax in this country at all...

or you can do like this GP and decide you can't be bothered earning it in the first place.

(now, think how many people would slam me if i said i CBA to work for more, given i pay an effective 33% tax and lose a further 33% in tax credits ...)

As I posted earlier my GP does a lot more than just being a GP and has a salary commensurate with that. Personally I'm grateful he is my GP. He helped maintain my sanity when ds was born early and poorly and I had to deal with everything alone. His colleagues at the hospital saved ds's life and enabled him to come home. Other colleagues have treated ds and ensured that he lives a full and active life. I am thankful on a daily basis. Like any profession there are good and bad doctors and I know that I am exceptionally lucky to have encountered ones who are truly dedicated in their jobs.

I suppose I was just surprised at the direct impact of the 50% bracket will have on me. I don't much care for wealthy bankers or some of my colleagues who are no doubt affected by this tax .

Should add to Edgar that I have no personal axe to grind about the 50% tax bracket at all. I can honestly say that as far as income is concerned it is not a bracket that will ever affect me .

As for arranging your finances I imagine this is hard to do when you are paid by the NHS. I know plenty of accountants living in large houses who are apparently basic rate tax payers.

smallwhitecat

I agree with both your unpopular opinions

no sympathy at all for the "poor" GPs. Since the new contract GPs here won't do ANYTHING without being paid ridiculous amounts for it. Agree that they should be salaried and that OOHs should be part of their contract. Re inner city/deprived areas - well just pay them more to work there??

As for arranging your finances I imagine this is hard to do when you are paid by the NHS. I know plenty of accountants living in large houses who are apparently basic rate tax payers

as already indicated, the NHS pays them as self-employed inividuals...that is by invoice (or some other obscure mechanism that simulates S-E invoicing) this leaves them a bit of wiggle room about how to play their finances...although probably if you're close to the threshold its not worth the hassle - you either pay it or don't bother earning it.

"cazwa people are generally paid a lot because they are very clever -have worked bloody hard from age 14 - deferred a lot of god times whilst their mates were having fun - are good at what they do and work long often unsociable hours"

I resent this - I did all of these things, as did dh, we work very very hard, always including evenings and weekends and get nothing like the pay of GPs. It's simply insulting to suggest that people aren't paid well because they haven't worked as hard as someone else.

and the vast majority of GPs don't work long unsociable hours - they work 9-5 since they don't have to do OOHs

Doesn't it cost £250,000 to train a doctor (that we pay) and they have seen very good pay increases in the last few years. I don't think they should be complaining and I don't think they are worth five times more than a nurse.

I don't think they should be complaining and I don't think they are worth five times more than a nurse.

this is another thing - some nurses are very highly qualified and attain the same knowledge level as a Dr. but still aren't eligible for that kind of pay. and can't legally write prescriptions...

I commented that to a MW i was forced to see on a saturday because my sodding surgery wasn't open!!! She was obviously paid enough to work weekends.

this is definitely one area where the Labour governent made the rich richer, and at a great cost to the public purse.

"some nurses are very highly qualified and attain the same knowledge level as a Dr. but still aren't eligible for that kind of pay. and can't legally write prescriptions... "

Oooohhh, the "noctors" (nurse-doctors). I hope you don't talk like that when real doctors are present They haven't the same level of knowledge, for starters.

within specialism, i don't doubt those Noctors do know more than the Gp, especially given the tripe told to some Mners by their GP!

As there are seemingly, lots of GPs on MN I'd best shut my trap though...

Just winding you up a bit, EAP

Sorry, just have to laugh at the idea that "most GPs work 9-5". I assume that was a flippant comment? DH gets home at about 7.30-8pm most nights, except the day he does extended hours when it can be 9.30 (and he works 10 minutes away so it's not because of a commute). Then he has to bring home paperwork. Maybe the official patient-seeing sessions are 9-5 (not most of the practices round here, they're all 8 or 8.30 to at least 6 plus extended hours) but that never actually means the last patient leaves at the end of 'official' surgery time.

DH would never kick out a patient just because their 10 minutes allotted time is up, so he's always running late (and of course gets complained at because of that), his last patient is often there at 7 or later and then once the patients are gone there's the writing referral letters, checking test results, filling out insurance forms, signing repeat prescriptions, etc etc. Oh and phoning patients who hadn't been able to make it in, and often going out to visit them if they ask for a visit - never mind that 'surgery' might have finished a couple of hours ago.

When DH trained as a GP 15 years ago it was because it supposedly gave him the opportunity to get to know his patients and develop a relationship with them, and then have a reasonable work-life balance. Both of those have gone out the window over the last 10 years to the point that he's considering leaving the profession. Being paid well (not 100k mind you, that would be nice!) does not make up for the stress of being under huge pressure to meet targets (rather than care for patients), frequently being insulted and threatened by patients who feel they know better than him (give me antibiotics for my cold), and very rarely being home in time for his daughter's bedtime.

JJ - so that £150K a year GP that some people on here are feeling so sorry for, they do actually have to work unreasonably long hours? So they could actually give some of it up, for their own sake and that of their patients (who wouldn't get a tired, frazzled, grumpy GP). It's not the sort of money you make in 9-5, 5 days a week.

lily - it is about choices as well - could you have been a gp - you want to?

maybe we should all be paid the same

doctors are very clever - not everyone can do it however many hours they work

am i not allowed to say that?

Cristina - DH's surgery has such hugely long hours because of the number of patients they have. They cannot reject patients once they have signed up (and it would be ridiculous to do so). They are currently trying to find another doctor, in order to take a pay cut each but be able to see more patients - so yes, it should be possible. There aren't always enough trained and experienced doctors available to fill vacancies. One of the doctors who got pilloried for taking home upwards of 250k earned that because he was single handed in a surgery that had previously had 2 doctors, but he hadn't been able to find someone to fill the other post.

To be able to work 9-5 (as in arrive at 9 and leave at 5) I guess given the current amounts of paperwork, a doctor's surgery would have to end at about 2pm.

There are plenty of unfilled GP posts, and also vacant hopital doctor jobs, if they are over paid then why are there vacant posts?