so, why is a con-lib thing so bad??

[thisisyesterday]

i voted lib dem, but in all honesty politics is not my strong point, though i am making an effort!!

now, i've heard a lot of people saying they'll never vote LD again if they go in with the tories, which just seems strange to me

I mean, I voted hoping that LD would win more seats and have more influence. I never thought they would win, and I can't believe other people did either.....

so surely it was always going to end with either a lab/con govt but just more seats for the libs? OR, a coalition of some kind

so.... why is a lib/con team worse than a lib/lab team?
the way I see it if you end with a coalition it's always going to be with a party you don't agree with surely?
and it's better to have a con/lib govt than a purely con govt because that way hopefully the lib dems can have MORE influence over things... hence all the talks

a friend of mine said something along the lines of "they're siding with the tories just so that they can get into power..." well duh! isn't that the aim of any political party? to get into power? and by making a good deal with another party and being able to influence things more than you would otherwise, why is that so bad??

'Endless surveillance by the state for dubious purposes'. That's a pretty woolly statement - sounds very Daily Mail. Personally I don't have a problem with state intervention. Seat belts, smoking bans, recycling - bring it on. And let's not forget how repressive the Tories were - suss laws, clause 28, etc etc

I don't think you'll find that many LibDems who want to associate with the Tories.

Well there's one right here. I voted Lib Dem because I believe in their values, and I think those values are much closer to the Tory party than the Labour party.

Lib Dems who wanted Labour should have voted Labour shouldn't they? Then they wouldn't have this problem.

Agree with gaelicsheep.

This political compass is quite interesting if you want to see how different all three parties are.

Why don't they just have another election but take the lib dems out of the equation?

how can they take the lib dems out? this is a democracy. you can't just take a party out

According to the political map,the BNP are less right wing than lib dems & labour! Or am I reading it wrong?

wasn't that a joke?

right wing and left wing are to do with economics

I think the blurb that accompanies the diagram demonstrates quite nicely that the Labour party has moved towards being more authoritarian and the Tories are moving towards being more libertarian.

It's true that Labour and Lib Dem cultures are poles apart. They have many of the same aims, but Labour has a prescriptive approach that the Lib Dems don't have. They also have what Clegg describes as a "power-hoarding" approach, whereas the Lib Dems believe in decentralisation and devolving power. Labour are happy to co-opt business and use it to provide services regardless of whether this involves the creation of a monopoly: the Liberals have always been very anti-monopoly.

Churchill said it best in his speech about socialism vs. liberalism (when he was still a Liberal). Soon after I joined the LDs I heard Simon Hughes quoting from it at a campaign rally.

"Liberalism is not Socialism, and never will be. There is a great gulf fixed. It is not only a gulf of method, it is a gulf of principle... Socialism seeks to pull down wealth; Liberalism seeks to raise up poverty....Socialism would kill enterprise; Liberalism would rescue enterprise from the trammels of privilege and preference....Socialism exalts the rule; Liberalism exalts the man. Socialism attacks capital; Liberalism attacks monopoly."

He was talking about a rather different Labour in 1908, obviously, but a lot of the differences still stand.

"Less than 36% wanted a Labour government in 2005. I don't recall much angst in the Labour camp about their own lack of mandate back then."

yes

that made me laugh

Someone recently wrote that Labour and Lib Dems had much in common but the intrinsic difference in their approach was that Labour was about equality and the LibDems about freedom. I think that's fair comment.

well i must retire to bed now, thank you for explaining things to me! i feel all knowledgeable now lol

i liked that diagram thing, saw it on another thread the other day, apparently i;m the dalai lama!

Me too thisisyesterday!! I agree the difference is slight. I guess I'm hoping a Con/Lib Dem coalition might help the Tories on their way to being a truly modern and progressive party. Labour seems to be beyond hope - at least until they get rid of that odious man.

HumphreyCobbler, left and right wing are to do with economics?

Oh my god, I know absolutely nothing about politics.

Any chance of that in a tiny, easily understood nutshell?

Okay, Gaelic, I don't expect you to agree with Brown's policies but I defy you to watch his speech to Citizens UK and not be convinced of his integrity.

I think the bit at the bottom that shows the movement of the parties is important too Prolesworth.

Lib Dems and the Tories have moved around the same general area they're in now, sometimes coming fairly close together.

Labour have completely moved from their fairly liberal socialist postion in the lower left quadrent up to and authoritarian right-of-centre postion and moved higher and higher over time.

In 2008 the Tories and Lib Dems were quite close, I can imagine them finding things they can compromise on given that was only 2 years ago and the same people will be involved. But proportional representation does seem to be a sticking point (and should be, as one of the main Lib Dem principles they'd be selling out not to get some kind of committment to it)

I'd actually like to see the Lib Dems quite a bit further down the scale towards libertarian like the Green Party are on it.

Conviction and integrity aren't the same thing, though. Brown has conviction - I wouldn't deny that. He certainly believes in what he does. However, he is prepared to act without integrity in Labour's interest (or in the interest of his clique within Labour).

ok, thanks