A thread for progressives

[jenny60]

This is a serious thread. We know politicans take account of mumsnet and I cannot be alone in wanting my opinion on this deal making to be heard. This is my situation: I am a member of the Labour party but I voted tactically to keep the Tories out in my seat. It didn't work, BUT I feel outraged as a liberal left type of person that the party I voted for in good faith may now do a deal with the Tories. I know they never said they wouldn't, in fact the opposite, but I would like to hear from any LDems whether they feel part of a preogressive alliance or part of a Party which has more in common with the Tories. Surely I was not wrong to belive that we have more in common with the LDs than they do with the Tories.
This is not a thread for Tories: it is a thread for those of us on the progressive left. I have to go for a while but I want to hear what others think.

Thanks

I think you have a very skewed view of the right Jenny. Many Tories benefit from minimum wage; paid maternity leave (I did under the Tories in 1995/6); equal pay (I've always had that, under the Tories from 1990-1997 and then Labour continued it).

I have reservations about social reform in that I don't think it can be hurried through - it takes time for things like Civil Partnerships to be accepted as the norm - because people need time to adjust. Add into that the fact that the electorate holds varying religious beliefs, have a wide age range and are also influenced by where they live, so may not see many ethnic minorities, gay relationships etc and pushing it through can be counter productive. This has been evident in the way that some on the left seem intent on doing down those who are married, and those who have the temerity to be white, able-bodied and male (as I saw on MN last week). Your skin tone and your gender aren't easily changed!

No I don't think I do scaryT. There were progressive Tory governments in the 19th century, especially Disreali, but it's just a fact that Labour and Liberal govs have introduced the most progressive legislation. I have no doubt that this kind of legislation has continued under the Tories, but they don't initiate it on the whole. It's just not what Tory govs. do and they never have. There are also relatively socially conservative people in the labour Party (David Blunkett for example)but I think they are increasingly in the minority. This is just not the case in the Conservative Party. The notion that the Labour party is somehow anti-white, married people is just silly. This describes probably a majority of the membership and certainly the MPs.

I have always voted Lib Dem. I loathe the labour party and will never vote for them even tactically. The labour party is still partly funded by the unions. Tony Blair was an awful PM who led us into war in Iraq. The labour party are mainly townies and don't understand the country/market town folk. They don't care about the environment - are trying to build 3rd runway at heathrow. During the past 13 yrs they have channelled an awful lot of money into their heartlands leaving hospitals in other areas in a dire state. They have not managed the economy well - PFI has not yet come home to roost. The labour Mps on the whole come across as less able than their tory or lib dem opponents.

I feel sickened by the way the labour party are crawling up to the lib dems now..the only reason is the labour party don't want to be out of power. They have had 13 years to give the country a fairer voting system and have done nothing.

So, are you ok about a LD/Tory coalition, given that the Tories are opposed to most of what the LDs stand for? I take the point about Labour being rubbish about electoral reform: it is terrible, as was the war (two issues on which the Tories were even more gungho then Labour). But I really don't think the Labour Party is 'crawling' anymore than the Tories right now. Thet ALL want to be in power.

So the Equal Franchise Act 1928 and the independent taxation of married women in 1990 weren't progressive then?

I voted Lib Dem and I feel closer to the Tories than Labour. I would never describe today's Labour party as progressive. If the Lib Dems want to prove their point about PR then a successful coalition with the Tories is a golden opportunity. Conversely a cobbled together coalition with all the other losing parties would show up everything that's potentially bad about PR.

I liked David Cameron's speech on Friday and what I heard from Michael Gove yesterday. I would like to see a coalition working in the national interest as they suggest. Surely this would curb the worst excesses of the tories and give the liberal democrats more exposure and experience. I don't like the tribalism of British politics. The reality is that whichever party we voted for at the election we probably liked some but not all of their policies therefore the parties need to work together more so that good policies/ideas from all sides are adopted and unpopular ones are scrapped. If we had a tory landslide no one would be able to oppose any policy as the tories would always command more votes and get everything through without question.

I don't think the tories/lib dems are too far apart on transport, the environment or education.

The managing the deficit issue is interesting. Having voted Lib Dem I still think that something needs to be done this year but probably not the 6 billion figure the tories quoted. There are some things like CT Funds that could be scrapped to save the country some money without causing huge job losses. The teachers could have a lot of their paperwork removed this year so they can focus on teaching. Even though I voted lib dem I agree with David Cameron that the current inheritance threshold is too low but I don't think it needs to be raised as far as 2 million. Why don't they raise it to £750,000 a compromise. If it is left where it is all that happens is the rich don't pay it as they can afford to pay an accountant to manage their finances and it becomes a tax on the middle classes in normal family homes.

My Mum who has always voted lib dem liked Cameron's plan for the over 65s to pay a one off fee of £8000 for care homes.

On the other hand I think the lib dems were right that the tax system should be fairer and that the banks should be split so that the high street banks are not involved in risky deals.

On Europe I think most British people want to keep the £. However I feel worried by the way the tories have aligned themselves to odd groups in Europe rather than the main parties in France/Germany. Whilst there is a lot that is wrong with the EU there are benefits of being part of it..eg. with the volcanic ash saga passengers using EU airlines had greater protection/compensation.

It would be nice if the tories invited caroline lucas to talks too..a lib dem/tory/green coalition is what this country needs. (I know greens are lefties in terms of taxation but green issues need a very high profile in my opinion)

ScaryT: you have made two arguments. The first is that Tory voters benefit from progressive legislation. Of course they do. Who would say no, on principle or for any other reason, to paid maternity leave for example? Does the fact that Tory voters agree to accept the benefits of progressive legislation somehow prove that they are not opposed to progressive leg? This is the historical point about Tory governments. They preserve the status quo: they don?t tend to undo what?s been done and has proved popular (i.e. The National Health), but they don?t tend to initiate such legislation.

The other point is about which parties introduced such legislation historically. Well, if you want me to list them all, I can try, but I think you will find that the list under Labour/Liberal will be very long and the other will not be especially long. The 1928 act was a continuation of the 1918 Representation of the People Act which was introduced under a Lloyd George coalition government. Women?s suffrage is actually a very interesting case because all the parties were very split over this before around 1918. But it is fair to say that, on the whole, the Liberal party contained many more pro-suffrage MPs and certainly members. The best place to test this was in the then Tory dominated Lords, especially before it lost the power of veto. It was very opposed. The only Party which came out for women?s suffrage was Labour.