So what went wrong for Dave?

[theyoungvisiter]

I felt like he got handed this election on a plate. How did it end up like this?

And what do you think the result means for his future?

it is extraordinary that Hameron wasn't killing him with all that stuff, isn't it?

I think the problem was, Gordon was probably actually rather good on those issues and could hold his corner much better than Dave.

Certainly whenever those issues came up in the debates Gordon did quite well at answering questions and explaining their position.

And in terms of policy, it's quite hard for the Tories to point to instances where Gordon was clearly wrong and where they said at the time that they would have done things differently.

People recognise how easy it is to be wise with hindsight. Many of the government clangers were backed by the Tories.

if Cameron had just brought up lack of equipment for the troops. Some deaths were caused due to lack of equipment. There was lack of bullets, radios that didn't work. The entire public would have agreed with Cameron about the mistakes that were made. There were countless other issues on which Cameron would have won the support of the entire population, and yet they were never brought up.

true, tyv. how did the figures go wrt the the debate stats? i've forgotten what they were now, but camo should've had a clear maj off the last debate i thought.

but then i personally thought the debate polls were incredibly sus. that's one area where i'll allow claig his or her conspiracy theories.

The People have spoken - the teouble is, it's a bit difficult to undershant what they've said!

-particularly after a bottle of Chardonnay - understand, obviously!

thanks Aitch, I'm not totally wasting my breath. There was Cleggmania, it was hysteria. Clegg, who was unknown a few weeks before, was suddenly catapulted to being more popular than Cameron and Brown. Of course, we saw yesterday that it all turned to dust.

"After 13 years of New Labour,

Iraq, - the Tories would have been exactly the same

expenses scandal - Duck hotel anyone?

transfer of power to new prime minister without vote by the country - John Major?

financial crisis - "economically we are all thatcherites now" Mandelson

sale of country's gold reserves - tories said nothing at the time

The Tories are just a bit shit. They are exactly the same as Labour but slightly worse for poor people and middle class people, who are in fact working class people basically. we are all working class now. and the Tories have no new ideas change you can believe in wtf does that mean? nothing basically.

Twirl, twirl to victory...

Cool you are right. The Tories are shit - but quite a lot shit. Not just a bit.

Apart from that I agree.

I agree, DC had so many ggood things to say and focus on and all anyone can remember is cutting tax credits, and even that he could have made more of a point of saying it was only cuts to 50K +. I think More should have been made of the stuff people understand - equipment for troops, their mental health follow up thing for vetrans but he barely touched it. I think he was almost trying to downplay the conservs so people didnt say he didn't deliver - almost that he would end up being better than he said he would be - maybe he thought he was a sure thing and could afford not to pull out all the stops?

Coolfonz - they are all liars. The Tories could at least have pretended that they didn't back Brown all the way. What would Brown's argument have been?

"yes you're right, we messed up, but you agreed with us?"

Brown had nowhere to hide, he couldn't escape Labour's record.

Cameron is so clearly an intellectual lightweight. He had NO new, good ideas. He did not stake out any new ground.

Look at Obama. He said, I will close Guantanamo, I will sort out healthcare for everyone, I will try to make things fairer, I will sort out Wall St., I will talk to failed regimes like Iran etc (shorthand version and these were really controversial and new things in the US. He really polarised people and the right slagged him for wanting a socialist healthcare programme etc. But people thought: this is new, this is a change, this is different.

Cameron just went on and on about people wanting change but never articulated what change he was offering. ut that's the problem with the Right. They don't have a true intellectual heritage. Thatcher was an idealogue with a huge agenda. But there was no intellectual back up.

Labour has always had a powereful intellectual heritage (it's called socialism!), even if they sometimes stray wildly quite far from their heartland. The Tories just don't have anything to fall back on. So Cameron looked lightweight and things like his being an OE, giving jobs to his pals, being rich and privileged (which never harmed Blair) became his identity.

Incredibly, Cameron and Clegg are the two biggest losers and Brown is the back-handed winner. I think it shows that the UK is now mostly:

• open minded about co-habiting, homosexuality, single parents, divorce etc

• supportive of the disadvantaged and the poor, no more 'get on your bike and find a job'

• seeking a fairer society rather than an "I'm alright jack' approach, eg minimum wage, tax credits etc

Having moved in a progressive direction for 13 years, it is very hard to go back.

And dare I say it, if he had insinuated that we would follow scotland with the 'breastfeeding law' , when he knows MN, we would have been rooting for him. And easy thing for him to do that would get him some easy votes IMO. And why didn't he just quickly call his wife when the nappy question arose, rather than admit he didn't know?! What a wally.

AScretLemonadeDrinker, you are right. If Cameron had visited the troops in hospital and said that it was unacceptable how they were treated. If he had said that it was disgusting how the Gurkhas, who fought and died for this country, were treated, then the entire population would have thought he was an honourable man.

THing is, it is pretty much all there... in their policies. having read them, I knew what they were about. But for the (more) casual voter who relied on the TV debates and media gimmicks conservs look a bad choice. As far as I could see they are the only ones who want to support troops more - funding for children who have lost a parent, more mental health support etc. but we heard diddly squat. This could have been a walk in the park, he just seems weary of it all TBH. Maybe he doesn't really want to take on the crisis, maybe he wants to get in in 4/5 years? Maybe he wanted to downplay it all abit, thinking he was a safe bet, and then wow us all with everything rather than risk not being able to deliver and look bad...?

Cameron is slick and photogenic but I just don't think he is shrewd...

He was the one who pushed for Clegg to participate in the debates. This was unnecessary, he could have made it being a two-horse debate a condition on his participation, but he got it all wrong. Ok, no-one could have predicted Clegg-mania, but Cameron - who should be plugged in at a level above all of us - got it utterly wrong.

Campaigning through the night on Tuesday smacked of desperation and showed just how much he always had an eye on the meeja angle. Just window dressing. Again.

Also, it was very telling in the last debate when he was talking about "if people are well-behaved" (in reference to financial matters) it just reminded me of the old-school, patrician, us and them Tory leader of yesteryear, talking down to the little people.

I concur completely with VodkaAndTonic

good speech by Cameron. That's it, it's all done and dusted. It is positive and the country can move forward under new positive leadership.

The other thing is, the Tories seem to scaremonger on little things:
-remember how they were against the minimum wage, how it would drive up wages costs across the board, how small business would suffer, go bust etc etc ....none of which came to pass and now, Cameron admits the minimum wage is "part of the furniture" and that they wouldn't think of scrapping it

• same for fox hunting, it would put thousands of countryside people out of work, would not be enforceable, would drive hunting underground (scuse the pun) etc...again, all wrong. Drag hunting works fine, hunts are in better health today than they ever were, no jobs lost.

And yet on the big issues - Iraq, financial regulation - they were complicit with Labour, never uttered an objection.

People remember how wrong they have been getting things, even in opposition.

I know. Those silly Tories will keep scare-mongering about our huge national debt.

Silly things. It's only a few financial types who worry about that kind of stuff. I say, let our kids sort it out.

well but people remember that they said the minimum wage would bring the country to its knees, and then they start shrieking "doomed! Doomed! We're all doomed!" again, people shrug and turn away.

You can only cry wolf so many times before people stop listening.

I agree with Vodka. The Tories opposed many very popular measures with stories about how it would cripple the country, and went along with the government on many very unpopular measures.

It's not surprising that now when they really do have a point, many people prefer to bury their heads in the sand.

besides which, they may be talking about the national debt but they've said almost NOTHING about how to solve it.

They were far less forthcoming than the lib dems in that respect.

agree with theyoungvisiter, the Tories were wrong on many things and they did back Blair and Brown on many unpopular measures.

But when it comes to crying wolf, there's only one master, the big bad GBH. He huffed and he puffed and he threatened to blow our house down over climate change

"We have only 50 days left to save the world", but he was nowhere to be seen when Climategate occurred.

Well done gin and vodka (or is it tonic?!) wish I wrote that, lol. I'm so with you on everything you wrote.
Sick and tired of certain papers making out it's Tory victory...my arse!

Why wasn't it going to be a landslide election?

I think given the lead the Tories had at the beginning of the campaigning, it's absolutely shocking how 'badly' they did. It should have been a landslide if Labour are making such a mess. The media was vicious towards Brown, The Sun newspaper had their most vocal campaign ever and still DC and Boy George didn't sweep home. Why?

It puts Cameron in a very poor light if you ask me.

And Clegg had better bloody stand up to the Tories and push for electoral reform. That way those regressive, over privileged berks can never hope to be in power again.

I loathe the Tory party. Arrogant sods. I'm furious they're in again, ready to bend over to the free market, take away as much as they can from less well off people and give as many tax breaks as possible to the wealthy. It sucks.