for the hard-of-thinking, does anyone know what they're all planning to do about TAX CREDITS? Cos that will sway my vote....

[WitchBoxToX]

Apart from the current government, I've not managed to find out what our mates Nick and Dave have planned - way too cagey over it all. Anyone know?

and read this

Also GS, I'm wondering if Brown did specifically say 'the poorest' or whether that was something that DC quotes him as saying?

Barely relevant really I suppose, but I can recall GB saying 'the very poor' but can only DC's dulcit tones using the phrase 'the poorest, that's a lie' etc.

I think I'm all electioned out tbh, glad it all be all over soon. I think I'll get drunk whichever way it goes The gin was a christmas present, I'm not spending my measly tax credits on it!

doh but can only hear DC's dulcet tones using the phrase 'the poorest, that's a lie' etc.

I don't disagree that CTCs, childcare vouchers (which GB wanted to scrap), etc. are a good thing. I really don't. It's the rest of Labour's policies I have a problem with. And even more so the continuous dishonesty that they've displayed throughout their time in power.

If I thought it would do any good I'd be scrawling "none of the above" tomorrow today. As it is I'm voting for what I see as the least bad option, which is the party that happens to hold the seat in any case.

I think the phasing out of the childcare voucher is a right poke in the eye for gender equality.

It will make women poorer!!!!

Anyone else noticed the lack of women in this election.

Wubbly - I heard him with my own ears, in the third debate, say that DC is going to cut tax credits for the poorest families. That may not be an exact word for word quote, but he most definitely stated the poorest families. That had me shouting at the TV and it lost him my respect for good I'm afraid.

The Tories lost my respect for taking a whole 3 days to realise and start to defend themselves.

GB is very good at lying making factual errors/misjudgments and then managing to wriggle out of it. I for one am completely sick of it.

Pinkfizzle - is Labour still planning to phase out the vouchers? As it happens I agree that tax relief should probably only be at the basic rate, as it seems mighty unfair that higher earners get cheaper childcare. But not if it's the start of phasing them out altogether.

Your mind obviously isn't as frazzled as mine GS!

Still, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, after all, it might've just been a slip of the tongue, a little like DC's faux pas over China

I'd consider giving him the benefit of the doubt if he hadn't been making similar claims for the past three weeks.

Having said that, I heard NC on the radio before the campaign started saying the Tories were going to cut tax credits. He forgot to mention they were going to do the same thing.

Hell, maybe I will spoil my paper after all.

I still have no idea who to vote for...

Going back to the OP (and then going to bed!) I suppose my thinking is that no party, not even the Tories, is going to severely cut tax credits for families on average incomes. Simply because that would plunge so many family incomes into crisis that it could only make the economic situation ten times worse. Perhaps that's wishful thinking, but I do hope not.

At the end of the day it will boil down to local issues for me. That means someone who will fight for lower fuel prices in remote rural areas with zero public transport. And any party that would introduce a little fairness into energy pricing would get my vote - give people on all electric heating access to the cheapest deals for example. I think the Lib Dems may have something like that in their manifesto, but tbh I can't remember any more.

I wish I could drown my sorrows tomorrow night, but sadly I'm on the soft stuff.

My understanding is the tories and lib dems will cut back on tax credits for those at the top end of the tax credit scale.

However labour has not explained things fully as they are saying they won't cut tax credits but are raising NI which is going to take money away from people so they are giving with one hand and taking away with the other.

The lib dems are taking tax credits from some people but everyone earning less than £112,000 will benefit from their proposed increase in the tax threshold meaning no tax will be payable on earnings under 10k. So overall households with an income of less than 112 000 will do best out of the lib dem policies on tax/tax credits alone. Those families earning 30-60k will gain more from the income tax threshhold change than they lose in tax credits so will be better off.

The tories are cutting back on tax credits for the well off but will not go ahead with the NI increase.

I think labour's NI increase would affect everyone even the less well off so whilst Gordon says don't vote tory or lib dem as you will lose your tax credits labours policies will make a lot of people worse off than the tory or lib dem policies.

There is an article in the telegraph online about this and it says a lot of people will benefit from the lib dem policy..not something you would expect the torygraph to admit!

Tax Credit and Other Family Policies

I think this comparison explains the differences well. What you have to add in on top is that the Tories will reverse the increase in NI... so if you lose a little on tax credits by being on a moderate/high income, you'll gain a little with lower NI. By contrast, Labour will raise NI contributions but keep tax credits the same

The BBC table is a bit misleading as it doesn't mention the NI issue (as chil says) and it doesn't mention the liberal democrat change to the income tax threshold which would cancel out any loss of tax credits.

£545 a year is actually quite a lot to some people

agreed

it is half a council tax bill for instance

If you get £545 a year you are probably earning less than 31000 and will keep your tax credits under liberal or tory plans.

Housing is a major cost. Transport is very expensive if you commute to London - season ticket prices £2000 a year. Childcare costs more. Many chain stores charge higher prices in wealthier areas.

Riven, I've no doubt at all that many people in London are living on a salary of less than £30k, my brother is one of them.

My point about prescriptions, dentistry etc wasn't specifically about London, I was trying to point out that someone earning £30k (anywhere in the country) has to pay for all of these things from their income as they don't qualify for the benefit exemption. I'm not complaining about those who do get those benefits . sorry if I didn't express that very well, it was late when I made that post.

The situtation in London for those on a low wage is exacerbated when you take housing costs into account.

Housing costs can account for 50% of income for those living in London. "As a share of disposable income, housing costs are much higher for people on low incomes than for others: on average, they comprise 25% of net household income for the poorest fifth of the population compared with 15% for those on average incomes and 10% for the richest fifth.

Overall, housing costs as a proportion of income are slightly lower than a decade ago. Beneath this overall picture, however, the outcome looks a lot less benign for some groups. Rents in both the social and private rented sectors have been rising in line with earnings and are therefore no lower as a proportion of income now than a decade ago. In both cases, rents as a proportion of income are higher in London and the South East ? in the case of private sector rents, much higher ? than elsewhere in the country.

Housing costs have risen most sharply for first-time buyers: their average mortgage costs are now a third of average earnings ? the same as the previous peak recorded in 1990 (see Figure 1). This percentage varies markedly across the country, reaching 40% across the South of England compared with 25% in Scotland. As a consequence, the percentage of younger working households (aged under 40) unable to buy a home even at the low end of the market ranges from 20-25% in Scotland and the North of England to almost 50% in London and the South of England. " Taken from the Joseph Rowntree Foundation.

I've picked this link up from another thread. It really is very worrying.

Riven, I do know what you mean. I've previously delayed going to the GP until the end of the month because I know I can't afford the prescriptions.

I did take out a pre-payment certificate, £10 a month for 10 months as it automatically saved me around £5 a month just on inhalers.

I now have an medical exemption certificate so don't have to fork out for that. I'm hoping the tories have no plans to scrap that. I'm sure they wouldn't dare.