Lib Dems ARE cutting "Middle Class Tax Credits"

[Sweeedes]

Just so there's no confusion.

tax credits are a laugh anyway

currently unemployed dh (fingers crossed not for very long - prays it works out) me sahm 4 kids

we get the equivalent of a salary of 33100

ok some of that is insurance paying for mortgage but we would have housing paid for if we didnt do it

so its got to be some point higher than that that they stop tax credits otherwise it would be even more grossly unfair to workers than it already is

Northern Lurker, I think in reality that we don't actually get any tax credits as the £200 is the child benefit, we don't get anything else, I included it as a tax credit but it isn't really, still makes a big difference to us though.

Absolutely right, vote yellow but get Brown!

Phew fruitshoots! I thought that was what you must mean but very glad to hear that was the case - and I agree with you - I get the same for three dcs and it would leave a big hole in our finances too were it to be removed.

'Why not just not take it from them in the first place?iyswim

becuase they use the tc system now to deliver:

a disability income premium

what used to be income support for children

what used to be family credits

it's no longer all a tax relief as it was at it's inception

hum, i think at 41k between us we got £80 pm in CTC, not exactly essential...

so no i don't think it really matters.

people in this wage bracket 40-50k will not be receiving much CTC anyway.

child bens a diff matter, because if means tested will cost much more to administer...

Are the LibDems proposing to scrap Child Benefit for high earners? I must read the manifesto again, because I didn't think so.

Daphnill our joint income is over £50k but we both work in the city our monthly commuting costs are £350 just for train to London and bus in London that doesn't include the bus fromhwre to the station! We can't afford to live nearer london because of the housing costs! But both have decent enough jobs! however workig locally wouldn't help as the salary is lower and the childcare costs would remain the same!

My biggest worry is if interest rates shot up! I'm on Mat leave work in a "quango" org so at risk under Tories..... also my dept is in the process of beig outsourced so lots of uncertainity hubbys co are also in the process of outsourcing so w're praying and hoping but I might have to go back to work early if hubbys job goes!

I think Tories scare me the most I think Labour could have done worse they have spent 13 years trying to undor the last Tory mess!

Lib dems don't have as much experience sadly where we live is a safe Tory seat so much so we have zilch campaigning in form of leaflets or door knocking!

butterscotch - I know exactly what you mean. It's Catch 22, isn't it?

I live in a safe Tory seat, but I dread to think how a Tory government would affect me. I also hate to think how cuts would affect frontline services, not just the ones that I use.

I think child benefit should be scrapped for high income earners. It's ridiculous that some people rely on it, and others put it towards their skiing holidays.

I think the big problem with Child Benefit is that (like Family Allowance, which it replaced) it is one of the very few benefits which isn't means tested and is easy to administer. It's been going so long that there would be an enormous fuss if it was scrapped.

PS. I know this is off-topic, but are there many fifth columnists on MN?

Daphnill it defo is! It's about balance I have no issue with people getting benefits I feel for lone parents who are sometimes better off not working because the way the system works they get trapped! My mum was a single parent and I saw her struggle I wouldn't wish that on anyone!

No party is perfect but I do think we have a social responsibility to care for everyone that's partly why I'm so anti Tory !!

I suport this move, currently, we are in the lower income band, dh earns c. 15K, I am FT student, 2 kids, no childcare. We get just under £500 per month tax credits, which has been a big help for the last four years whilst i have been studying.

I graduate this year and will (hopefully) be working for a minimum of 15K. If our income is twice as much as it was previously, we don't need a whole lot of tax credits and 50 quid a month is great for me. And then if the lib dems take that £50, well its only £50 isn't it?

The giant hole in the UK budget deficit has to be filled somehow.

we have an income of £23500 a year, my dh works full time and i work 16 hours a week. we have 2 children and get £103 per week. This money is our life line. It puts food on the table and pays for my petrol to get me to work.

I see now.Is this it,the govt calculates what it thinks a certain family set up needs to live and then makes your income up to that amount if you don't earn it?

I should make it clear. I don't pretend to know what "middle class tax credits" are, I merely quote from the Lib Dem leader's mouth.

I'm not in receipt of tax credits so it doesn't impact upon me directly - but I know aa lot of Mumsnetters of very varied incomes do depend on tax credits and I mention it just so thoe people can investigate further.

Quattro - it is a policy I suppot actually and if you look further up the thread you will see I say so. I'm just trying to persuade people to check what they might be voting for.

Desiderata - V nice to see you here. Your essential v skiing sentence is spot on and as usual beautifully crafted. How's the book coming?

Desi I think it would cost more to means test child benefit than to give it to everyone, which seems mad to me.

Perhaps people should just ask themselves, do I need the money and if not don't claim either tax credits or Child Benefit.

Noddy - that's how they set the levels of credit in theory, but in practice it doesn't always work. There are some households with a number of children who receive quite a lot in Child Tax Credit. The amount of credit is then reduced depending on earnings, so you lose a £ for every £x you earn over a certain amount. It can sometimes be better not to work, especially if travel costs to work are high. Having a very low income/no income also qualifies the family for free school meals and prescriptions. That's what the "benefits trap" is.

If you get working credits you dop not get freec schoom meals (as we found out when dh lost his job and started a business with the low profit inotially that entails)

Yes some are better off not working I guess but you only have kids for a few years and after that who wants to be on IS for life?

'?Income Support OR Income Based Job Seekers Allowance;
?Income Related Employment Support Allowance;
?2009/2010 Child Tax Credit (your annual income must be less than £16, 040 for the whole household);
?If you are receiving Working Tax Credit, you will NOT be eligible to receive free school meals;
?National Asylum Seekers Support Benefit;
?Guaranteed State Pension Credit;'

from my council website

people who get school meals only get CTC portion of TCs which is just a new namr for what used to be IS for children

i am deffo better off working ...even without CTCs (and yes i've worked it out) if simply as my council does not pay housing bens to mortgage holders, so i have to earn that money or get it through other benefits...or no house. CTC/WTC makes life much more possible though.

i must admit i was suprised we were eligible for anything whilst dh was in work - we really didn't need it. although perhaps someone in that income bracket might think that actually, they can't afford to have much fun, becuase of all the expenses of work, student loans, blah blah.. that is a ocnsequence of their choices (however limited said choices may appear to be at the time)

trafficcone - my DP & I work hard but between us don't earn £50k together. However, just because we don't earn that high amount doesn't mean we don't work hard and TBH we don't get WTC we do get CTC and we don't rely on them but we would struggle if they were taken away.

I didn't say people on Working Tax Credit receive free school meals, but it can sometimes be better for people not to work.

A ridiculous example of this is that some years ago, after I had received my share of the house from my divorce, I was living in a rented house before finding somewhere to buy. Meanwhile, I was very unhappy in my job, was totally stressed after dealing with the divorce, two DCs and some other personal issues, so decided to give up work for six months. I had loads in the bank, but wasn't earning anything. I didn't even claim anything, but the tax office sent me a card for free prescriptions, eye tests and dental care and informed me that my DCs were eligible for free school meals.

Since I lost my permanent job last year, I have been doing casual supply teaching and do not average more than the equivalent of £15k a year. However, I'm not eligible for any of the freebies, because my total income last year was more than the threshold. Crazy!

Daph I'm not sure how it worked years ago am afraid- got to know the system recently as I am a carer and Dh was made redundant for a bit

WRT to not entitled to anything though- what you need to do is call TC office and ask that your income be assessed on curent yar. It has drawbacks in that it is easy to be overpaid and you must be scrupulous about immediate decalration of every penny, but it is something they can do (they do for us) even though they can be awkward to persuade to do it

Maybe a letter asking would be easiest

TC's for us emant that after Dh 's redundancy we were ale to get him self employed and retraining which has to be far better than yet another benefits family in s e wales.