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Politics

attention prospective Tory voters (unless you really don't care about "ordinary people")

92 replies

Ponders · 09/04/2010 22:48

have a look at this

'The truth is plain, and it is provable. David Cameron's policies will take money from the hard-working majority of Brits, and hand it to his friends and relatives on landed estates and in tax havens. He is not on your side; he is on the side of a tiny clique who have every luxury in life and now bray for even more. Cameron bragged to his supporters last month: "Nothing and no one can stop us." It's up to the majority who will lose out if he become PM to say - oh yeah?'

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ButterPie · 09/04/2010 22:57

Thanks. Facebooked.

Ponders · 09/04/2010 22:58

oh good! Thanks, BP - keep it going!

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lincstash · 09/04/2010 22:59

On the other hand, according to the ONS, in the 14 years that Labour has been in power, more of the countries wealth is in fewer hands, and theres more families below the poverty line than when they came to power.

Under Labour, the rich got richer and the poor got poorer, a charge that you could once level at the Tories, but now applies to Labour.

Vote Labour to continue to get poorer, unless ofc your already a millionaire.

herbietea · 09/04/2010 23:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Ponders · 09/04/2010 23:05

"Cameron will give a £1.2bn inheritance tax cut to the richest 2 per cent in Britain ? with most going to the 3,000 wealthiest estates (including his wife's). Then he promises to end the 50p top rate of tax, giving another £2.4bn to the richest 1 per cent. Then he has pledged to cut taxes on the pensions of the richest, handing another £3.2bn to the same 1 per cent. Then his marriage tax relief policies will give 13 times more to the rich than the poor.

To pay for this, he will slash programmes for the middle and the skint, like the Child Trust Fund, SureStart and state schools."

Go right ahead & vote Conservative to preserve your own alleged wealth then, guys

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TheFallenMadonna · 09/04/2010 23:11

I cannot understand why, when they talk about 'hard decisions' that will have to be made, and how spending will have to be cut, they can continue with the changes to inheritance tax. One of the hard decisions they should have made was to change their minds on that.

brogan2 · 09/04/2010 23:22

Just laughing at him disputing that Samantha is blue-blooded because she went to day school. As if that's sooo low-end!

So she's the lower end of the 7%, except she isn't at all as her father is a baronet and her step-father is Viscount Astor. She grew up on an 300acre estate and yes, she was a day girl but at Marlborough College.

-And I'm a fee paying parent who would benefit nicely from the Tories winning. God help the rest of the country though!

Molesworth · 09/04/2010 23:28

Good blog post here on Cameron's confusion on inequality

Four points are worth making in response [to Cameron's pronouncements about inequality]. First, because of Margaret Thatcher?s legacy, the Labour government inherited a profoundly unequal country. Left Foot Forward has repeatedly shown how inequality rose dramatically during the 1980s and 1990s. Front benchers including Theresa May have refused to defend this record. But as Next Left points out today: ?the big question which David Cameron never answers is how he explains the rise in poverty and inequality in the 1980s, and what lessons he has learnt from it.?

Second, David Cameron is plain wrong to attack Labour?s record on poverty while the story on inequality is more complex than he ever concedes. As Channel 4 Fact Check has shown:

?Cameron?s claim on poverty just doesn?t wash ? the number of people in general, and particularly children and pensioners, in poverty have reduced since Labour came to power, although progress seems to have stalled in recent years.?

On inequality, globalisation ? including technological change and increased labour mobility ? have meant that, as Evan Davis made clear, the Government has been running to stand still. The OECD has found that across the developed world, ?economic growth of recent decades has benefitted the rich more than the poor.? This is not to excuse the further slippage under the Labour government which could have been dealt with through a greater prioritisation on unjustified salaries at the top and redistribution to the bottom but the Government has actually made real progress in difficult circumstances. The Institute for Fiscal Studies have recently published a report which points out the redistributive effect of Labour?s tax policies. While a 2008, a country report on the UK?s performance noted that:

?Since 2000, income inequality and poverty have fallen faster in the United Kingdom than in any other OECD country. However, the gap between the rich and poor is still greater in the UK than in three quarters of the of OECD countries.?

Third, against Cameron?s own measures of the causes of poverty, Britain is doing better than 13 years ago. As Seema Malhotra showed earlier this week, the number of marriages actually rose during the early 2000s. The Conservative?s marriage tax break which transfers money to the ?stock? of married people will do little to encourage a greater ?flow? of weddings. On education, in 1997 half of all secondary schools had fewer than 30 per cent of pupils gaining five good GSCEs including English and Maths while in 2009, it was one in twelve. Finally on welfare dependency, the big problem is ?marginal deduction rates? but as the Table 5.2 of the Budget shows, the number of people facing marginal rates over 90 per cent has fallen from 130,000 before 1998 to 70,000 in 2010-11. More to be done, sure, but significant progress nonetheless.

Finally, no matter what he claims, inequality will get worse under the Tories. As Johann Hari eloqently points out in today?s Independent:

He will give a £1.2bn inheritance tax cut to the richest 2 per cent in Britain ? with most going to the 3,000 wealthiest estates (including his wife?s). Then he promises to end the 50p top rate of tax, giving another £2.4bn to the richest 1 per cent. Then he has pledged to cut taxes on the pensions of the richest, handing another £3.2bn to the same 1 per cent. Then his marriage tax relief policies will give 13 times more to the rich than the poor. To pay for this, he will slash programmes for the middle and the skint, like the Child Trust Fund, SureStart and state schools ?

[Labour's] redistribution will be slammed into reverse by him, with state cash flowing in the opposite direction.

If Cameron was serious about tackling inequality he would start by scrapping these regressive policies.

Ponders · 09/04/2010 23:29

'Cameron said in an interview: "The papers keep writing that [my wife, Samantha] comes from a very blue-blooded background", but "she is actually very unconventional. She went to a day school."
Read that sentence again. Now imagine how Britain looks from inside David Cameron's head, where the 97 per cent of us who went to day schools are "very unconventional". (In the Bullingdon Club, he called George Osborne "oik", because he had gone to the £20,000-a-year St Pauls, not the £30,000-a-year Eton.) This points to a wider mindset. The group he considers "conventional" and "normal" are the only people he has ever really mixed with, and they are the people he chooses to staff his office with today ? very rich people. Is it any surprise he makes policies that serve them, not us?'

Thanks for that post, brogan - nice to see that someone gets it!

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lincstash · 09/04/2010 23:31

@ Ponders

NO, as can been seen from the ONS figures, its Labour who provably has made the rich richer and the poor poorer.

This Labour government stole almost all Thatchers policies, and then went even further. We havent had a socialist left wing government for 28 years, this government is more right wing, more Tory than the Tories ever were.

So dont kid yourself your voting left wing or Labour if you vote for Brown, your voting for laissez fair Keynesian monetarism as first expounded by Norman Tebbit in the Thatcher Cabinet.

Vote ultra right wing, vote labour, and continue to get poorer.

TheFallenMadonna · 09/04/2010 23:35

So the ONS and the Institute for Fiscal Studies must be publishing conflicting data then, unless one or other is being quoted incorrectly or misleadingly.

"The Institute of Fiscal Studies just published a long-term study of how Labour's tax changes have affected different classes, compared to the last Tory government. It found that the richest 10 per cent have seen their incomes cut by 9 per cent, to pay for an increase in the incomes of the poorest 10 per cent. A rich man has lost on average £25,000 a year; a poor woman has gained on average £1,700 a year."

From Ponders' link.

Ponders · 09/04/2010 23:35

ok lincstash - so we all vote Tory, & Surestart etc inevitably disappear, how does that benefit the poorest in our society?

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wastwinsetandpearls · 09/04/2010 23:43

That is shocking, I was beginning to fall under Cameron's charm, thankyou for giving me a good shake. Especially as I am in a tory/lib dem seat. Every vote counts here.

cornsilk · 09/04/2010 23:44

excellent link ponders

ShinyAndNew · 09/04/2010 23:48

Just posting so it's on my threads I'm on so I can email this link to my sister later.

I have already decided I am voting Lib Dem. She wants to vote Tory 'to piss my Grandad off'. She is young, clueless and a bit of tosser. Hopefully this may change her mind.

Her argument with me about it is 'What have Labour done for us?'. This link shows that improvemnts have been made by Labour after the mess the Tories made.

brogan2 · 09/04/2010 23:53

Yes Ponders, though in the article they refer to the 97% of us who went to day school.

I think this muddys (ies?) the water somewhat because of course the 93% who go to the state 'day school' around the corner weren't even in his consciousness. He was, of course, referring to the 4% within the 7% who are day pupils at independent schools which as the article tells us, he referred to as 'oiks' whilst at Oxford.

lincstash · 09/04/2010 23:54

@Ponders

How did letting in 3 million immigrants benefit the poorest in society, if we are going down that path.

In the 14 years Labour has been in power, employment amongst british has dropped by 500,000, by employment amongst migrants has doubled to nearly 3 million.

In fact, almost all of the 1.67 million new jobs created in the UK in the last 10 years has gone to a foreigner.

Come and have a look round the agricultural industry, almost all the seasonal jobs that used to be done by locals are now done by migrants. In fact, there several food processing plants round Spalding where you cant actually get a job if you dont speak Polish.

Vote Labour, and vote to continue to keep our kids and our poorest citizens on the dole.

ShinyAndNew · 09/04/2010 23:57

What do the Tories plan to do about immigration?

brogan2 · 09/04/2010 23:58

Shinyandnew, I wish we could explain to more young people how divisive it was before 97. How elitist the Tories were and how at their very core they don't give a shit unless you're white, wealthy and able-bodied.

brogan2 · 10/04/2010 00:05

Lincstash, the vast majority of immigrants have been EU migrants who have free movement throughout all EU countries, as do you.

Many of those who come to this country take on jobs which no-one else is willing to do. Our NHS would crumble without migrant workers.

Why are the jobs going to Polish workers? Are they working harder? Better qualified?Willing to work for minimum wage? There must be a reason or are you saying it's because they are Poilsh?

claig · 10/04/2010 00:06

looks like typical Johann Hari scaremongering. Smacks of desperation. Adds up to about £10 billion. That is dwarfed by the billions that Brown blew on his banker friends after loosening regulation for them.

Hari, the Independent's class warrior, champion of the common folk, educated at Cambridge, a real grafter wielding his pencil in support of the proleriat, doesn't mention the NI cuts which will help the "big wide middle and bottom of British society" maintain their employment. He doesn't mention how the Tories will cut the bureaucrats' pensions that the common folk have to fork out for. He doesn't mention how our council taxes will be less than under Cameron than under his profligate Labour buddies. He forgets to mention that the Tories are inclined to cut taxes on all strata of society, unlike his pals who believe in taxing until the pips squeak and then blowing the money willy-nilly on all manner of trendy misguided policies. He doesn't mention that poor old pensioners will no longer be stripped of all their assets when they go into care, but then again he never did care.

Hari doesn't care about us, he cares about himself, he wants to carry on swanning around Westminster meeting up with those in power. He knows his time is up, he knows the gravy train is screeching to a halt, so he is resorting to the tactics of the scoundrel. "Comrades it's class war, don't let the Old Etonians grind you down" he cries from a safe position far to the rear. But no one's listening, he looks round and sees he's on his own, it's a shame but they've heard it all before, there's no way he can fool them any more.

lincstash · 10/04/2010 00:09

They will limit it considerably, vastly, more than Labour ever did. They will introduce quotas and requirements.

TheFallenMadonna · 10/04/2010 00:15

Will the conservatives cut NI? I have read their draft economics manifesto, and all they say is that they will "try to avoid" the NI increase that Labour propose. Which si quite different. Especially with the "try"...

brogan2 · 10/04/2010 00:15

I haven't read the detail on Tory immigration policy but I cannot imagine that they are going to dismantle article 45 (I think!) which gives free passage across member states to all its citizens.

Or have I missed that?

lincstash · 10/04/2010 00:16

"By brogan2 Fri 09-Apr-10 23:58:58
Shinyandnew, I wish we could explain to more young people how divisive it was before 97. How elitist the Tories were and how at their very core they don't give a shit unless you're white, wealthy and able-bodied. "

And Labour dont give a shit about you if you are, they prefer you to be foreign, not english, not white, not married, not heterosexual and not christian - Harriet Harman even invented a Bill to enshrine this bigotry and prejudice in law, laughingly and ironically called The Equality Bill, because equality isnt at all what its about.

Unless you're one of the boys, then they invent a government nonjob for you - "Diversity Consultant" or " Assistant Lesbian Boxing Coordinator". They created 600,000 public jobs like this, all useless, if they sacked half the useless LGO's and mates on quangos it would amount to millions and millions saved.