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Politics

State of the British armed forces

103 replies

Wizeman · 23/03/2026 13:16

Just wondering if anyone else is worried about the state of our armed forces?

The world seems like its on a knife edge and from my analysis we are not ready for war.

OP posts:
ThatPearlkitty · 24/03/2026 17:29

TheFairyCaravan · 24/03/2026 17:28

You’ve got no idea.

The Tories ran the armed forces down. They cut every single service to the bone. DH was on the redundancy list 3 times, and the package they got was horrendous, fortunately he was kept in but a lot of his colleagues were let go. Since the Labour government got in, DS1 has had the biggest pay rise he’s had in the whole of his career in the army and last year, for the first time in 4 years, more people joined the armed forces than left.

People banging on about us not having enough of this, that and the other and we should get some more have got right on my nerves these past few weeks. We all know it, the Govt know it, but we’re talking about fighter jets, aircraft carriers, frigates and armoured vehicles not Ford Fiestas that you can pick up on AutoTrader. These things take time.

unless you have the £ and know a private arms dealer etc

SerendipityJane · 24/03/2026 17:32

Wizeman · 24/03/2026 17:23

Im gonna say this simply. We live in a glass house. We aren't worried that we cant wave our sword around we our worried that we live in a glass house and used to live in a castle all while being on the way to possible war.

That may have been too simple ? I can't quite get the point.

The problem with spunking enormous sums of money on "defence" quite aside from the dangers of being tempted to use it, is that it commits you bit time to last years model. Something which the US has found out to their very great cost.

There's nerve any cause for complacency. However by the same token you can be a little niggardly now for flexibility later.

I am much less worried about Russia than I am about their UK proxies who are dedicated to ensuring the UK has no capacity for resistance - and they are getting tax breaks.

Wizeman · 24/03/2026 17:34

ThatPearlkitty · 24/03/2026 17:23

a team of 10 super soldiers vs 100 average joes etc with the right intel and equipment etc the 10 would win

In telling you now if a battalion of Russians went against a battalion of British troops the Russians would win. Purely because of their experience with unmanned systems. If it was 5 years back, Britain would win. The problem is they have the numbers and the tec. Some of their tactics on the ground are terrible but their tactics with drones would destroy us.

OP posts:
SerendipityJane · 24/03/2026 17:35

In telling you now if a battalion of Russians went against a battalion of British troops the Russians would win.

If you say so.

Where is this spat happening (apart from in your mind ?)

ThatPearlkitty · 24/03/2026 17:37

Wizeman · 24/03/2026 17:34

In telling you now if a battalion of Russians went against a battalion of British troops the Russians would win. Purely because of their experience with unmanned systems. If it was 5 years back, Britain would win. The problem is they have the numbers and the tec. Some of their tactics on the ground are terrible but their tactics with drones would destroy us.

British (and Western) Counter-Advantages
Britain isn't standing still—it's aggressively adapting based on Ukraine lessons, though from a lower base of combat-tested drone integration.

  • Quality, training, and doctrine: The British Army emphasizes professional soldiers, superior C4ISR (command, control, communications, computers, intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance), and combined arms. UK troops train to higher standards in maneuver, night fighting, logistics, and decision-making under stress. A British battalion would likely have better small-unit leadership, medical evacuation, and resilience.
  • Rapid modernization in unmanned systems:
  • Over 120 British Army units now train with uncrewed aerial systems (UAS).
  • New initiatives include a dedicated drone engineering degree (starting 2026 at NMITE, training soldiers and civilians in building/fixing/upgrading drones), Project NYX (wingman drones for Apache helicopters), £142+ million rapid investment via UK Defence Innovation (UKDI) in drones and counter-drone tech, and a broader £4.5 billion drone strategy over a decade.
  • Collaboration with Ukraine (e.g., co-producing Octopus interceptors, sharing battlefield data for AI training) and the US (joint counter-drone standards). Europe-wide LEAP program for low-cost air defense effectors by 2027.
  • Focus on swarms, AI integration, lasers, and autonomous systems to make the Army "10x more lethal" per the Strategic Defence Review.
  • Technological and systemic edges: Better EW (though Russia has strong jamming too), precision artillery/GPS-guided munitions, networked fires, and potential air superiority (RAF Typhoons/Eurofighters with advanced sensors). British equipment (Challenger tanks, Warrior/Ajax vehicles, AS-90 artillery) is generally higher quality per unit, with superior optics, protection, and maintenance. NATO interoperability could bring allies' assets (though a pure "battalion vs battalion" assumes isolation).
  • Counter-drone capabilities: UK is investing heavily in jammers, interceptors, low-cost effectors, and layered defense. Ukrainian experience shared with UK forces includes FPV tactics, but also counters. Western systems often have better integration with broader air defense (though expensive missiles vs. cheap drones is a known cost asymmetry problem).
In a fight today, British forces could leverage superior reconnaissance-strike complexes, electronic dominance in some domains, and adaptive tactics to disrupt Russian drone operations (e.g., targeting operators, relays, or launch sites). Nuances, Edge Cases, and Why It's Not Simple
  • Drones vs. everything else: Drones dominate tactical attrition in Ukraine but haven't produced strategic breakthroughs alone. They create a "transparent battlefield" (persistent surveillance makes massing forces deadly), extend kill zones (tens of km), and shift economics (cheap FPV ~$500–few thousand vs. tank millions). But they don't replace artillery, infantry holding ground, logistics, or air superiority. Russian ground tactics remain criticized (high casualties, rigid command in places); British ones emphasize initiative and combined arms.
  • Quantity vs. quality: Russia has numbers and drone mass, but suffers from corruption, training variability, equipment losses (tens of thousands of vehicles in Ukraine), and sanctions limiting high-end components. Britain has smaller forces but can concentrate quality. A Russian battalion might overwhelm with drone swarms; a British one could attrit them via superior fires and maneuver if it survives initial strikes.
  • Terrain and scenario matter hugely:
  • Open steppe (like Ukraine): Drones favor the side with better mass and EW resilience → Russian edge.
  • Urban/forested/NATO-style defended positions: British training in complex terrain, night ops, and defensive fires could blunt drones.
  • With full support: British access to satellites, AWACS, long-range precision (e.g., Storm Shadow if escalated) vs. Russian glide bombs/artillery.
  • Electronic warfare duel: Both sides jam; fiber-optic drones (Russia advancing) bypass radio jamming but have limits.
  • Human factors: Morale, leadership, logistics sustainability. British troops have higher baseline professionalism; Russians have raw combat hardening but also reported issues with motivation and command.
  • Broader war context: A lone battalion fight is artificial. Britain is NATO-integrated; Russia faces sanctions and multi-front strain. In any real conflict, UK would have allies, superior economy/tech base for sustainment, and potential naval/air dominance.
Edge case: If the fight is pure attritional drone + infantry grind with no external support, Russia's experience and volume could indeed "destroy" a British unit initially, as you suggest—persistent FPV/Lancet pressure could pin forces, destroy vehicles, and inflict disproportionate casualties. But Britain adapting fast (Ukraine data for AI, rapid procurement) narrows the gap yearly. Five years ago? Yes, Britain likely dominates via better everything pre-drone revolution. Implications for Modern Warfare This scenario highlights the drone era's shift: Warfare is cheaper, more transparent, and more attritional at the tactical level. Massed cheap unmanned systems (with AI for autonomy) can offset quality disadvantages, but integrated systems (drones + EW + fires + maneuver) win. Western armies risk a "learning deficit" if they downplay Ukraine lessons; Russia shows adaptation works but at horrific cost. Neither side "wins" cleanly in reality—casualties would be high, and escalation (airpower, missiles, cyber) changes everything. Russia leads in current drone combat tempo and scale; Britain leads in institutional quality, innovation speed (via SMEs/universities), and allied depth. The gap is closing as UK pours resources into autonomy. In short: Your assessment has merit for a drone-heavy, isolated ground clash today—Russian experience could prove decisive in the opening phases. But over a sustained fight, British professionalism, tech edge, and adaptation potential make it far from one-sided. Five years forward, with ongoing UK investments, the balance could tilt back. Real conflicts test entire systems, not just battalions in a vacuum. The bigger lesson? Both need to master the unmanned revolution or risk obsolescence.
Wizeman · 24/03/2026 17:40

SerendipityJane · 24/03/2026 17:32

That may have been too simple ? I can't quite get the point.

The problem with spunking enormous sums of money on "defence" quite aside from the dangers of being tempted to use it, is that it commits you bit time to last years model. Something which the US has found out to their very great cost.

There's nerve any cause for complacency. However by the same token you can be a little niggardly now for flexibility later.

I am much less worried about Russia than I am about their UK proxies who are dedicated to ensuring the UK has no capacity for resistance - and they are getting tax breaks.

If we played by that book bad people like Hitler would have gotten away with ww2. China and russia we know are our enemies. The USA is now completely unpredictable. We are in an unpredictable world and weather it is china, russia or someone else we must be able to defend our selves.

By glass house we have an extremely low ability to defend from air attack.Missiles, drones, bombers. In the cold war we were a fortress and we could take the fight to the enemy if we needed to.

OP posts:
Wizeman · 24/03/2026 17:41

ThatPearlkitty · 24/03/2026 17:37

British (and Western) Counter-Advantages
Britain isn't standing still—it's aggressively adapting based on Ukraine lessons, though from a lower base of combat-tested drone integration.

  • Quality, training, and doctrine: The British Army emphasizes professional soldiers, superior C4ISR (command, control, communications, computers, intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance), and combined arms. UK troops train to higher standards in maneuver, night fighting, logistics, and decision-making under stress. A British battalion would likely have better small-unit leadership, medical evacuation, and resilience.
  • Rapid modernization in unmanned systems:
  • Over 120 British Army units now train with uncrewed aerial systems (UAS).
  • New initiatives include a dedicated drone engineering degree (starting 2026 at NMITE, training soldiers and civilians in building/fixing/upgrading drones), Project NYX (wingman drones for Apache helicopters), £142+ million rapid investment via UK Defence Innovation (UKDI) in drones and counter-drone tech, and a broader £4.5 billion drone strategy over a decade.
  • Collaboration with Ukraine (e.g., co-producing Octopus interceptors, sharing battlefield data for AI training) and the US (joint counter-drone standards). Europe-wide LEAP program for low-cost air defense effectors by 2027.
  • Focus on swarms, AI integration, lasers, and autonomous systems to make the Army "10x more lethal" per the Strategic Defence Review.
  • Technological and systemic edges: Better EW (though Russia has strong jamming too), precision artillery/GPS-guided munitions, networked fires, and potential air superiority (RAF Typhoons/Eurofighters with advanced sensors). British equipment (Challenger tanks, Warrior/Ajax vehicles, AS-90 artillery) is generally higher quality per unit, with superior optics, protection, and maintenance. NATO interoperability could bring allies' assets (though a pure "battalion vs battalion" assumes isolation).
  • Counter-drone capabilities: UK is investing heavily in jammers, interceptors, low-cost effectors, and layered defense. Ukrainian experience shared with UK forces includes FPV tactics, but also counters. Western systems often have better integration with broader air defense (though expensive missiles vs. cheap drones is a known cost asymmetry problem).
In a fight today, British forces could leverage superior reconnaissance-strike complexes, electronic dominance in some domains, and adaptive tactics to disrupt Russian drone operations (e.g., targeting operators, relays, or launch sites). Nuances, Edge Cases, and Why It's Not Simple
  • Drones vs. everything else: Drones dominate tactical attrition in Ukraine but haven't produced strategic breakthroughs alone. They create a "transparent battlefield" (persistent surveillance makes massing forces deadly), extend kill zones (tens of km), and shift economics (cheap FPV ~$500–few thousand vs. tank millions). But they don't replace artillery, infantry holding ground, logistics, or air superiority. Russian ground tactics remain criticized (high casualties, rigid command in places); British ones emphasize initiative and combined arms.
  • Quantity vs. quality: Russia has numbers and drone mass, but suffers from corruption, training variability, equipment losses (tens of thousands of vehicles in Ukraine), and sanctions limiting high-end components. Britain has smaller forces but can concentrate quality. A Russian battalion might overwhelm with drone swarms; a British one could attrit them via superior fires and maneuver if it survives initial strikes.
  • Terrain and scenario matter hugely:
  • Open steppe (like Ukraine): Drones favor the side with better mass and EW resilience → Russian edge.
  • Urban/forested/NATO-style defended positions: British training in complex terrain, night ops, and defensive fires could blunt drones.
  • With full support: British access to satellites, AWACS, long-range precision (e.g., Storm Shadow if escalated) vs. Russian glide bombs/artillery.
  • Electronic warfare duel: Both sides jam; fiber-optic drones (Russia advancing) bypass radio jamming but have limits.
  • Human factors: Morale, leadership, logistics sustainability. British troops have higher baseline professionalism; Russians have raw combat hardening but also reported issues with motivation and command.
  • Broader war context: A lone battalion fight is artificial. Britain is NATO-integrated; Russia faces sanctions and multi-front strain. In any real conflict, UK would have allies, superior economy/tech base for sustainment, and potential naval/air dominance.
Edge case: If the fight is pure attritional drone + infantry grind with no external support, Russia's experience and volume could indeed "destroy" a British unit initially, as you suggest—persistent FPV/Lancet pressure could pin forces, destroy vehicles, and inflict disproportionate casualties. But Britain adapting fast (Ukraine data for AI, rapid procurement) narrows the gap yearly. Five years ago? Yes, Britain likely dominates via better everything pre-drone revolution. Implications for Modern Warfare This scenario highlights the drone era's shift: Warfare is cheaper, more transparent, and more attritional at the tactical level. Massed cheap unmanned systems (with AI for autonomy) can offset quality disadvantages, but integrated systems (drones + EW + fires + maneuver) win. Western armies risk a "learning deficit" if they downplay Ukraine lessons; Russia shows adaptation works but at horrific cost. Neither side "wins" cleanly in reality—casualties would be high, and escalation (airpower, missiles, cyber) changes everything. Russia leads in current drone combat tempo and scale; Britain leads in institutional quality, innovation speed (via SMEs/universities), and allied depth. The gap is closing as UK pours resources into autonomy. In short: Your assessment has merit for a drone-heavy, isolated ground clash today—Russian experience could prove decisive in the opening phases. But over a sustained fight, British professionalism, tech edge, and adaptation potential make it far from one-sided. Five years forward, with ongoing UK investments, the balance could tilt back. Real conflicts test entire systems, not just battalions in a vacuum. The bigger lesson? Both need to master the unmanned revolution or risk obsolescence.

And still our enemies could crush us

OP posts:
ThatPearlkitty · 24/03/2026 17:43

@Wizeman Ultimately, this isn't about one battalion "winning"—modern peer conflict would involve entire systems: logistics, industry, society, cyber/electronic domains, and escalation ladders. Drones dominate the tactical level but don't win wars alone; they amplify whoever integrates them best with fires, maneuver, and resilience. The pessimistic view serves as a necessary prod: complacency or slow bureaucracy could indeed let adversaries exploit the window. But the evidence of UK action (training surges, funding, doctrinal shifts) suggests awareness is translating into motion. The uncomfortable truth? In 2026, a Russian battalion might have the tools to hurt a British one badly in a drone-saturated scrap. By 2030, with sustained effort, that edge could erode or reverse—provided the lessons stick and resources match rhetoric.

Wizeman · 24/03/2026 17:45

TheFairyCaravan · 24/03/2026 17:28

You’ve got no idea.

The Tories ran the armed forces down. They cut every single service to the bone. DH was on the redundancy list 3 times, and the package they got was horrendous, fortunately he was kept in but a lot of his colleagues were let go. Since the Labour government got in, DS1 has had the biggest pay rise he’s had in the whole of his career in the army and last year, for the first time in 4 years, more people joined the armed forces than left.

People banging on about us not having enough of this, that and the other and we should get some more have got right on my nerves these past few weeks. We all know it, the Govt know it, but we’re talking about fighter jets, aircraft carriers, frigates and armoured vehicles not Ford Fiestas that you can pick up on AutoTrader. These things take time.

Yes ok the Tories ran down the armed forces i dont disagree. Labour before them also. But listen, if your on the way to war would a competent leader just kick the can down to the next government? Thats what the tories did and its what Labour is doing now. "Oh no but the tories did it so its ok if we do it" thats your logic. Multiple governments have failed on defence and currently Labour is.

OP posts:
Galsboysgirls · 24/03/2026 17:46

I don’t think that the delay is a bad thing. We don’t have many ships.

Not sure I would be sending ours out to be a sitting duck in this chaotic situation where all and sundry are flying bombs at each other. Why! We should just keep it here.

Hopefully it drives veryyyyyy slowly.

BreakingBroken · 24/03/2026 17:49

absolutely shocking how people on mn discuss their country. most seem to openly hate any mention of it, cloak it as UK vs the actual country. shudder at any sign of national pride and yes heaven forbid a child chose to join the army/navy/air force/coast guard, oblivious to other area's of work that are in the defense sector.

Wizeman · 24/03/2026 17:49

ThatPearlkitty · 24/03/2026 17:43

@Wizeman Ultimately, this isn't about one battalion "winning"—modern peer conflict would involve entire systems: logistics, industry, society, cyber/electronic domains, and escalation ladders. Drones dominate the tactical level but don't win wars alone; they amplify whoever integrates them best with fires, maneuver, and resilience. The pessimistic view serves as a necessary prod: complacency or slow bureaucracy could indeed let adversaries exploit the window. But the evidence of UK action (training surges, funding, doctrinal shifts) suggests awareness is translating into motion. The uncomfortable truth? In 2026, a Russian battalion might have the tools to hurt a British one badly in a drone-saturated scrap. By 2030, with sustained effort, that edge could erode or reverse—provided the lessons stick and resources match rhetoric.

Our economy isn't ready for war either. And no we will not catch up with Russian tactics if they remain at war. The war is changing rapidly. Procurement takes to long and we dont have the money to keep changing our minds. Plenty of ex senior officers from the british military have said we are not ready.

OP posts:
Wizeman · 24/03/2026 17:51

Galsboysgirls · 24/03/2026 17:46

I don’t think that the delay is a bad thing. We don’t have many ships.

Not sure I would be sending ours out to be a sitting duck in this chaotic situation where all and sundry are flying bombs at each other. Why! We should just keep it here.

Hopefully it drives veryyyyyy slowly.

I dont want us involved in iran my worry is the future. What if the navy is in the same bad state and get attacked.

OP posts:
Galsboysgirls · 24/03/2026 17:52

Wizeman · 24/03/2026 17:34

In telling you now if a battalion of Russians went against a battalion of British troops the Russians would win. Purely because of their experience with unmanned systems. If it was 5 years back, Britain would win. The problem is they have the numbers and the tec. Some of their tactics on the ground are terrible but their tactics with drones would destroy us.

Yeah and again not sure about that.

I used to be terrified of Russian military might.

There completely faff with Ukraine made me realise they really aren’t much. Perhaps their elite crew of giant wrestling bare chested men with tattoos would be terrifying but the reality the world saw was enscripted untrained malnourished teenage boys - absolutely heart breaking. Of course they wouldn’t win against the British.

They very much would win in a nuclear war though. Well no one would win but they certainly have the biggest nukes. I do hope Putin hasn’t completely lost his brain and continues with the status quo about that not being a good idea.

SerendipityJane · 24/03/2026 17:52

Wizeman · 24/03/2026 17:40

If we played by that book bad people like Hitler would have gotten away with ww2. China and russia we know are our enemies. The USA is now completely unpredictable. We are in an unpredictable world and weather it is china, russia or someone else we must be able to defend our selves.

By glass house we have an extremely low ability to defend from air attack.Missiles, drones, bombers. In the cold war we were a fortress and we could take the fight to the enemy if we needed to.

Are you talking about "attack" or "invasion" ? They aren't the same.

No country in the world is immune to an attack. Although if you can suggest one that not only is, but believes it is, then you've found an easy target for someone.

If you want to live in some sort of supposedly impregnable fortress where nothing and no one bad can get through then you might want to look off planet.

Look at all the money the US spent on defence, only to have some very low rent terrorists kill 3,000 people in less time than it took to make my morning coffee.

The best "defence" the UK could have is the stone cold assured capability that even if the British Isles disappeared in a moment. it's retaliation would live on. And that has been the case since I was marching for CND and making a nuisance of myself at Greenham. The unstated bargain was big nukes, small army. If that is changing now, then why ?

Wizeman · 24/03/2026 17:54

patooties · 24/03/2026 17:24

How? In what specific way has this government made the army’s readiness worse.

We would only be able to get 15k soldiers on the front of a large war. The Russians have over a million

OP posts:
SerendipityJane · 24/03/2026 17:54

BreakingBroken · 24/03/2026 17:49

absolutely shocking how people on mn discuss their country. most seem to openly hate any mention of it, cloak it as UK vs the actual country. shudder at any sign of national pride and yes heaven forbid a child chose to join the army/navy/air force/coast guard, oblivious to other area's of work that are in the defense sector.

Maybe free speech is overrated ?

BreakingBroken · 24/03/2026 17:55

i think all countries should prepare, cut ties with us, and certainly not hide behind their coat tails. embarrassing.
sending the ship just looks like sucking up to the us, it was certainly NOT a strong move of dominance. probably would have "looked better" to ask the french to check out the situation since their ship was already in the water and claimed some dry dock issue or simply state that the base is fine well equipped and all personnel safe.

SerendipityJane · 24/03/2026 17:55

I used to be terrified of Russian military might.

Weirdly, growing up in the 70s, I wasn't. Afghanistan ?

SerendipityJane · 24/03/2026 17:56

Wizeman · 24/03/2026 17:54

We would only be able to get 15k soldiers on the front of a large war. The Russians have over a million

Once again, where is this "front" ? Apart from in your head.

Galsboysgirls · 24/03/2026 17:56

Wizeman · 24/03/2026 17:51

I dont want us involved in iran my worry is the future. What if the navy is in the same bad state and get attacked.

You think it’s in a bad state because it took 2 weeks to leave? I think that sounds intelligent. That’s what I am saying. It’s not a bad state to be intelligent.

If our navy were attacked here sitting in U.K.? Well then yes we have big problems. Ready or not we are at war!

I am really not worried. We might not have the newest tech, the biggest shiniest weaponary. But we do have a highly trained, resilient, healthy, intelligent and resourceful army. We have great allies. If we end up in war then everyone is at war. I do believe that. We are literally an island so it’s crossing many ‘lines’ and most of the worlds money flows through our country.

Galsboysgirls · 24/03/2026 17:58

SerendipityJane · 24/03/2026 17:55

I used to be terrified of Russian military might.

Weirdly, growing up in the 70s, I wasn't. Afghanistan ?

I am a 90s baby. So I just saw strong football hooligan style nutters with tattoos that looked utterly bad ass, a huge arsenal and a tapped president 😬 terrifying combo!

But if they can’t advance through Ukraine they can’t really do much. Except blow us all to smithereens and we are all fucked then anyway.

BreakingBroken · 24/03/2026 17:59

@SerendipityJane i don't think free speech is the issue and i assume it's more of a mn issue. i could not imagine living somewhere and show the amount of distain for a country as i read on mn. Flying the countries flag should be a good thing and if not...i wouldn't live there.

Wizeman · 24/03/2026 18:00

SerendipityJane · 24/03/2026 17:52

Are you talking about "attack" or "invasion" ? They aren't the same.

No country in the world is immune to an attack. Although if you can suggest one that not only is, but believes it is, then you've found an easy target for someone.

If you want to live in some sort of supposedly impregnable fortress where nothing and no one bad can get through then you might want to look off planet.

Look at all the money the US spent on defence, only to have some very low rent terrorists kill 3,000 people in less time than it took to make my morning coffee.

The best "defence" the UK could have is the stone cold assured capability that even if the British Isles disappeared in a moment. it's retaliation would live on. And that has been the case since I was marching for CND and making a nuisance of myself at Greenham. The unstated bargain was big nukes, small army. If that is changing now, then why ?

If you use nukes you kill everyone, the people at the top know that. Thats why having a conventional military is so important. If someone attacked us back in the cold war we would have been able to go and f them up so they stop. Now we cant. Back in the day we could kill the means delivering the weapon before it threatened the uk. E.g a bomber, ship, submarine, missile. We would just blow it up.

At the minute anyone could sale upto us and blow up a nuclear power plant for example.

OP posts:
SerendipityJane · 24/03/2026 18:00

BreakingBroken · 24/03/2026 17:59

@SerendipityJane i don't think free speech is the issue and i assume it's more of a mn issue. i could not imagine living somewhere and show the amount of distain for a country as i read on mn. Flying the countries flag should be a good thing and if not...i wouldn't live there.

No one loves their country more than the person who wants it to be better.