Why would anyone think 16 year-olds should be allowed to vote?

[MsAmerica]

Be honest - think back to when you were 16. Did you have an understanding of a broad range of issues? Did you pay serious attention to national news? Okay, even many adults may lapse on the score, but still, it seems crazy to me.

In the U.S., voting age had been 21 and the only reason it was lowered to 18 was that teens were being drafted to fight in Vietnam, and it was felt as unfair for them to have no say.

Your argument makes no sense. Parents don't pay fees for state education so why would they be charged VAT?
But also private education is a service that you have chosen, your child could go to a state school like 94% of children and then you wouldn't have to pay Vat or fees

It's not the education that is being taxed it's the service the private school is providing .
VAT is chargeable on most goods and services..not just ones that are considered luxuries.
If I have a new roof on my house I pay Vat is that a luxury?
If I need a new boiler to heat my house I pay Vat
If I have a leaking pipe and need it mending I pay Vat.
I wouldn't consider any of them luxuries

For the last 20 years or so private schools have enjoyed an exemption now they don't have that exemption They are still treated favourably for tax purposes though as they have charitable status.

Who said it was hard to understand? Prior to January everyone had the choice (this word is key) to tax free (these two words are key) non state education options. Now nobody does. I really don’t understand why you insist on arguing this so very easily verifiable fact!!!

I think I’m done, you guys must be having a wind up. This is literally what happens when people argue children’s education is a luxury, absolute zero critical thinking when they grow up.

Sorry that was in response to @ThatBoldBear. It's not clear from the quote attached

Quite a few people banging their heads against the jar here.

Quite happy to shoot the breeze. But some posters are really expending their energies in the wrong places, demanding answers from people (like myself) who have zero agency in the status quo or changes to it. The only folk that can answer those questions are the politicians who create and approve legislation, and thence the government agencies tasked with implementing it.

Sad as it may seem, if there is to be a definitive - although possible unsatisfactory answer - to those questions posed, then it is unlikely to be on a thread on a popular parenting forum during the school holidays. And as such I will apply the level of mental energy I feel comfortable with to the situation. Clearly others have far more to devote to it, but in a liberal democracy that is their right. A right I would defend to the death.

I've tended to stay out of the politics forum as I was concerned the level of debate would be above my rather limited comprehension. A case in hand being I posted on this thread as it was in "active" and I didn't realise it wasn't chat. I shall do my best to stay off this forum in future.

everyone had the choice

They didn’t. The only people who had the choice were people with the money to pay for it.

Essentially what has happened is, for socialist ideological reasons, Labour have argued the taxpayer into stumping up more for education by having to pay for more children using state school, paying more for SEN provision and having to reimburse Eton etc for capital expenditure.

So I think that can be measured as as much of a success as the tax on farming, tax on business, tax on non-doms, increase in Employers NI etc..all spectacular net raisers of money.

Your argument makes no sense. Parents don't pay fees for state education so why would they be charged VAT?

I agree, not sure what argument you are referring to.

It's not the education that is being taxed it's the service the private school is providing .

Can you enlighten me as to the service private schools provide if it’s not education please?

I wouldn't consider any of them luxuries

Agree.

They are still treated favourably for tax purposes though as they have charitable status.

Can you enlighten me as to the favourable tax treatments please.

I think you are getting stressed about people not agreeing with you. It happens on mumsnet.

Bold and exclamation marks, we are a few posts away from capital letters and thank you for your attention to this matter.

But it is. Education is essential. Education with bells and whistles is not. Private education is a luxury, because there is a free alternative which anyone can use.

Bzzzzzz ... Bang 😀

Bzzzzzz ... Bang 😀

‘Education with bells and whistles’ Do you mean like music, languages etc? Small classes ? wrap around care? SEN speciality? Sports speciality? Drama? Ballet? Latin?
What education is essential and what is not Comrade?

Who said it was hard to understand? Prior to January everyone had the choice (this word is key) to tax free (these two words are key) non state education options. Now nobody does. I really don’t understand why you insist on arguing this so very easily verifiable fact!!!

You keep saying everyone had the choice - conveniently forgetting that this was not the case because only a small minority of wealthy people had that choice. For most ordinary people, no choice was available.

However, everyone has the choice to use non taxed, free state education. Nobody is being denied education as a result of this change.

As for the question of what is luxurious about it - don't pretend you don't know. Smaller classes, better facilities, better extracurriculars, subjects not usually available in state schools, and of course networking. These are not essentials, they are wants and not needs.

Green ink?

Labour should have ran with this line.

We want to discourage any of this bells and whistles education nonsense, you’ll go where the LEA put you and you’ll enjoy good old fashioned essential education.

Everyone’s access/right/choice to tax free (these two words are important) non state education for their children has been removed. I really can’t make this any simpler for you.

I think you could have strongly benefitted from some non essential education growing up.

Well, you're not patronising at all, are you?

Nobody has a right to tax free non state education. It's an extra. State education is available for everyone after all.

I come from a country where private education doesn't exist. I do not understand your deep sense of entitlement.

Sorry. I disagree as does much of the rest of Europe.

Everyone has the right to an education full stop. There's no prescription as to the form the education might take.

We left the EU so that doesn't matter.

Farage, Johnson got this benefit for the UK, sovereignity !

You can either afford PS or not, plus ça change.

It may have escaped your attention that the UK is no longer a member of the EU. Since this is the clear will of the people (which was subsequently expressed in an election for a government that said it was going to remove the VAT exemption on private education) then who are any of us to disagree ? Remember, THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE and how anyone who opposes it is a traitor ?

However, in a spirit of love and forgiveness, I personally would happily see private education made VAT free when the UK rejoins the EU. You have twenty years, your time starts .... now.

Probably time for a relaxing picture of some pebbles.

It could be reversed without that, depending on how Labour do over next couple of years.

My son is just 17 and thinks it’s great, as do I. They are the generation that will see the impact of decisions made today, they’ll be the ones looking for employment, education fees, buying houses, starting pensions young, will be using the NHS longer than any other voting age group

His friends all take an interest in the world and politics. Dumb decisions aren’t limited to 16 year olds as Brexit has proven…