Why would anyone think 16 year-olds should be allowed to vote?

[MsAmerica]

Be honest - think back to when you were 16. Did you have an understanding of a broad range of issues? Did you pay serious attention to national news? Okay, even many adults may lapse on the score, but still, it seems crazy to me.

In the U.S., voting age had been 21 and the only reason it was lowered to 18 was that teens were being drafted to fight in Vietnam, and it was felt as unfair for them to have no say.

This is clear @Quirkswork

Thank you. I might try point form as it hopefully will avoid people arguing against points I haven't actually made in the first place. Very Guardianesque. (Hence their low readership presumably 😉)

It's not stretching the truth to say the biggest opponents of votes for women were women. The fact they had no say in the matter seemed to slip past their irony meters.

As did the fact they would have to rely on their husbands to make sure it never happened. You find yourself asking "Just how saucy were the suffragettes ?"

Precisely! The hard of thinking haven’t worked this out.

I do wonder what posters were like as 16 year olds

I wasn't interested in politics, 'boring', but well aware of what was happening in society and the world. I didn't need to pay bills to see that.

This is quite hilarious coming from someone who suggested measures that would disenfranchise millions of current adult voters...

Aw loved Neil.

But you probably weren't well aware what was happening in society and the world realistically though. Assuming this is pre Internet. As a 16 year old. Obviously you may have been a child roving reporter. Or had a particularly hard childhood (sorry if you did) but all the posters on here saying they knew what was what about life and the world and the realities of living alone and supporting yourself age 16 I have to admit I do take with a large pinch of salt. While that may have been the reality for some, that won't be the reality for most.

Maybe you weren't aware realistically at 16, I could see what was happening with my family, friends, neighbours and wider community in real life.

And national and world news was on tv, in papers, magazines.

The 80s weren't exactly quiet times.

So yes at 16 I would have been able to make an informed choice despite not beimg a reporter

In the 70s and 80s we had this amazing technology called 'television ' and 'radio', which broadcast (gasp) the news! We also had these things called 'newspapers'. Honestly, your post is one of the most patronising things I've seen on MN.

Not only that. With only 3 channels (or even 2 depending on your vintage) the quality of reporting seemed to be a lot better and could be called news, rather than the lurid entertainment many people believe is news these days.

Still, we are where we are.

Yet another way to change the voting system would be to remove all restrictions and instead make finding the polling station a treasure hunt with cryptic clues. And if anyone discloses the location on social media all votes from that station are rejected.

Maybe it's time to talk about sortition. Probably the least incorruptible electoral system devised (and therefore the one that will never be used).

It's hardly patronising unless you are super sensitive (or age 16 now). Although I think your first few sentences could be described as such.

I think a lot of people have rather a rose tinted view of themselves as worldly wise, experienced, politically switched on, knowledgeable 16 year olds. I'm fairly sure that won't have been the reality. But I love how offended people are at the suggestion they may have been a normal 16 year old!

Tbf the younger you go the more likely it will be SM not BBC / equivalent delivering the news. Fine, it’s their choice but it might throw up some new general views.

Well its mumsnet so we can say anything. We can all claim to have had huge exposure to the world at 16. Or a.massive interest in politics. I even did politics Alevel. But I wasn't an adult. None of us are at 16.

I didn’t say huge exposure, I said enough to be informed of what was happening.

I would have been fine with my own DC to have had the vote at 16. One would have been able to vote in 2019

16 year olds already vote in some elections in Scotland, as I said previously just because Scotland do it doesn't mean it is a good idea, Scotland do lots of things that people don't think are particularly sensible.

There is no logical reason why people want to keep moving the age of adulthood and responsibility to an earlier and earlier age. There is actually an argument for increasing the age to 25 not reducing it to 16 based on brain maturity theory.

Like some have said above they can't do other things until they are 18 so why this? (We know why).

There are other changes that need to be made to the voting system we have in the UK instead of this:

Like making the electorate understand how important it is to vote in the first place instead of not bothering. Making voting compulsory, a civil duty but also having a box on the ballot paper that says 'I don't wish to vote for anyone on this list' or similar so that dissatisfaction can be properly recorded.

Knowing how referendums are supposed to work, knowing that they are never binding unless they are specifically made so on each specific occasion.

Making electoral promises binding with clear plans as to how they are going to achieve those promises so that promises aren't just grandiose words that are ignored once they have conned people into voting for them.

The average voting age in the world seems to be 18 and if younger they seem to tie it to other conditions like being employed.

I repeat: There is no logical reason why people want to keep moving the age of adulthood and responsibility to an earlier and earlier age.

No, just like I don't have a plan for the over-40 who aren't politically literate. Do you?

Sorry, but no, I disagree. I don't think it will increase political engagement and see nothing to indicate that.

I do say the same for many adults.
A friend of my rants that he thinks no one should be allowed to vote unless able to demonstrate an understanding of the basic issues.

Yeah, what percentage of 16 year-old pay income tax.
And VAT, as I understand it, is a sales tax. Even an 8 year-old pays that. Are you saying that all children should be allowed to vote?

No but I'm not suggesting they shouldn't have a vote.

It has in countries which have already tried it.

The age to vote may be reducing, but at 16 & 17 you will still not be allowed to stand in a general election (nor in elections for MS or MSP). So if you believe "they should have a say in how the country is governed", why are they banned from standing for election where they could really have a say?

In order to be able to vote at 16, kids of 14 & 15 would be allowed to register to vote (as currently happens in Wales and Scotland). It is an offence not to register when asked to do so by an electoral registration office. The open electoral register is available to anyone, so data on 14 & 15yo will be, in reality, public. Even if you tick the box to be excluded from the full register, this is available to all govt departments, all local authorities, all financial institutions and several others, so millions of people can access this data. Child safeguarding worries anyone?

But “this country” is England to me. And anyway I thought sixteen year olds could already vote in Scotland.
Do you think the quality of local government in Scotland has shown any improvement since the voting age was lowered? If there has been a noticeable improvement then that would be a good reason for a change in England. But I some how doubt that anyone has really looked at the outcome.
This is a cynical ploy by a desperate Labour government to gain a greater share of the vote. Unfortunately for then it will not succeed They will get their comeuppance at the next general election however they try to manipulate the vote.

In what countries can 16 year-olds vote?