Physician Associates - Bereaved family vs GMC

[AnneCarmegie]

The family of a young patient who died after being misdiagnosed by a PA is taking the GMC to court
Please read , donate and share with your family and friends. This could happen to any of us .
anaesthetistsunited.com/our-daughter-died-in-error/

Also happening in anaesthesia. x.com/kcisc/status/1914013735167140233?s=46

Seems like failure of the system to ensure proper pathways and this particular individual being ‘overconfident’ instead of checking with a colleague than the PA profession in itself. In the article she writes about not leaving an NQT by themselves, I’m an ECT and was left totally by myself, not my fault and luckily I’m not overconfident and would use my initiative when unsure, but a failure of the system definitely and a failure of the children in my care to not ensure proper support. It is unfair to tarnish all with the same brush. Same thing could be applied to advanced nurse practitioners being able to diagnose and treat in GP surgeries. Our healthcare system is on its knees and if you can get valued individuals through the door to help then please do, of course, like every profession- there will be bad practitioners and it is awful and horrific if this happens. But you cannot tarnish all with the same brush.

Obvious condolences to this family who lost their daughter due to malpractice and system support failure. If their colleagues knew they were overconfident- why were they not more closely monitored with more support put in place?

You have to be careful not to make this a witch hunt about PA’s as the NHS needs educated individuals. These are still people with usually a bio med undergrad degree or similar and a 2 years masters degree - educated and valued people in our underfunded and crippled NHS system and ensure this remains a failure of the government. Do not drive more people out of healthcare.

I saw a nurse practitioner recently after trying to book a GP appt. Was given propranolol for health anxiety despite arguing this and having very real symptoms. Went back weeks later and saw a different nurse practitioner who told me I probably had a trapped nerve (unlikely to cause arm, leg, and face weakness) or again, health anxiety. Referred for counselling. Then a few weeks later saw a GP, who was looking to see what bloods I had done for my one sided weakness and brain fog I originally reported with. None. Turns out I had extremely low folate and b12 and peripheral neuropathy, and have been referred to neurology in case it's unrelated. No idea if I just got lucky with the GP or if they were just better trained.

Unfortunately the coroner disagrees with you . This is the 3rd coroners report out of 6 deaths involving PA management of a patient. All 6 patients thought that they had seen a Dr . The coroner said that If nothing is done , more patients will be at risk of dying .
The majority of PAs don’t have clinical experience. Most of their clinical experience comes from Healthcare support worker jobs paid /voluntary . Only 8-11 % come from nursing backgrounds. Many got onto the course with Art , Chemistry , Events management , Law , computer science degrees . It’s pot luck as to who you end up seeing .
MAPs don’t study medicine -as per GMC and are non - medically qualified - as per recent BMAvs GMC ruling . Their training isn’t sufficient for them to diagnose undifferentiated patients . They don’t know what they don’t know .
Many of them are working completely independently and unsupervised with the GP blindly signing prescriptions this is from the horses mouth . Listen to this podcast

https://ockham.healthcare/episode-40-ria-and-andy-physicians-associates/

This isn’t supervision .

This court case is necessary to clarify what PAs/AAs can and can’t do. A national scope is needed . It benefits everyone . PAs, AAs , Drs , patients therefore everyone should donate .
It addresses some of the coroners main concerns and keeps patients safe . The GMC is refusing to regulate . They have no scope to regulate to . The majority of PAs haven’t even bothered to register with the GMC and they don’t have to until December 2026 . It’s a mess and it needs sorting immediately www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/Pamela-Marking-Prevention-of-Future-Deaths-Report-2025-0107.pdf

The GP has studied a medical degree then at least another 5 yrs to become a GP so is better trained

That’s a lie, To become a physician associate you'll need to complete a postgraduate diploma or master's qualification in physician associate studies.
For this, you'll usually need a first undergraduate degree in a health or life sciences subject, such as:

• biochemistry
• medical science
• healthcare science
• nursing

The postgraduate qualification takes 2 years to complete. It combines study with practical clinical experience in general, community and emergency medicine. Some universities now offer an undergraduate degree that includes an integrated Master of Physician Associate Studies (MPAS). These courses take 4 years to complete. If you're already a qualified medical professional, contact universities offering the postgraduate course about their entry requirements. From gov.uk

Though mind you I don’t disagree with you in the sense that more supervision is needed in lots of healthcare roles. But the problem comes from funding, time and support

What’s a lie . There’s nothing about the PA studies under or postgraduate course that I don’t already know . PAs can get onto the course with an Art degree and no clinical experience. I’ve seen it ! It’s been revealed by FOIs , it’s been covered by several news articles. The PAs tell you this in their fb group chats . You don’t HAVE to have a life science undergraduate degree. In fact , even if they all had a bioscience degree the PA course is still a standalone unaccredited course . NONE of the courses are accredited by the GMC and some of the courses don’t meet the standards altogether . The GMC have recently said this .
https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-sunday-telegraph/20240331/281844353644642

https://x.com/medicalmodelbri/status/1883649145896067466?s=46

Will I get a PA who studies Art with a few weeks working as an HCA before starting the course or who one who was an experienced nurse ? It’s pot luck . I’m not happy to accept the risk www.swansea.ac.uk/postgraduate/taught/medicine/physician-associate-studies-mpas/

The GMC don't actually want to regulate PA's. Being forced into it I think.
I don't understand how the prescription was issued to this young woman. PA s cannot prescribe. There is no system which will allow them too. So a discussion with a GP must have happened. A failure to ensure proper supervision isn't simply the individual PA s fault, it's systemic. GPs rarely have the time to manage their own workload. Never mind someone else's.

Doubt you'd get an experienced nurse , they would do an ACP masters over 3 years which includes prescribing.

Some nurses who have been stuck for years on band 5 or 6 do the course to get band 7 . Alongside nurses who do the nursing degree immediately qualify and start PA studies . I’ve seen both examples.

Unfortunately PAs who were previously Nurses/AHP prescribers were allowed to prescribe under their NMP . This was stopped by the GMP on the 13/12/24.
Also look up the FOIs . PAs know that they are not permitted to prescribe or request radiation but have done so in many ways . Thousands of illegal requests (X-ray and CT ) made by PAs in many trusts . Leeds , Calderdale, Lewisham , Royal Free and many more trusts . Either due to using the consultants details enabled by the consultant , their own login details (due to access being given by mistake by IT ) and other workarounds .
I’ve been a AHP for years . I have access to paper prescription pads but I would never prescribe because I know that I’m not allowed . Even if IT gave me access by mistake I wouldn’t do it . Why do PAs think that they’re above the law ?

They want to . They were paid 8 million pounds to do it . They didn’t want to before , but DHSC Charlie Massey was installed to achieve this aim. That is when the mass expansion began in 2017 . Before then there were only a handful of PAs in the U.K. , barely any in GP.

PAs are possibly between a rock and a hard place, but they are cheaper than Drs and that is why they exist.

Its ridiculous. How can they be expected to act as a Dr, and I know that some of them are - purely because of pressure on the system.
I tried to return to work as a Dr and there is no structured path.

We are losing out on Drs who’ve taken a career break - for perfectly legitimate reasons. And we are putting our health at risk by seeing people acting as Drs, but without the training of Drs.

My cancer was missed by a nurse specialist and a paramedic specialist. Both very nice people- but following algorithms rather than using actual knowledge, and also the instinct that Drs develop with clinical experience

It may well be the case that a PA provides a lesser service that eg a GP. But it's not like if PAs are limited or done away with you will get a GP. You will get nothing. People don't want to pay more taxes and resent paying even what they do.
No one (well not enough people) want to pay for anyone else's health care. The NHS is a second rate service for people who can't or won't buy something better. It's a safety net for the poor at best.

That's interesting. I don't know a single nurse ( and I know many) who has done or would do a PA course rather than a masters in advanced practice .

I’m sorry that this happened to you . You’ve one of the 600 . Very sad to see this . www.bma.org.uk/media/p13leadh/20250208-bma-reporting-portal-submissions-v3.pdf

If ARRS is used to employ the thousands of unemployed GPs instead of PAs then you’d get a GP . If Wes invested in training places for GPs then you’d get a GP . It’s a political choice .

its happening . I won’t name names but I could name at least 30 or more from the top of my head

https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/physician-associates/

A little light reading….

This must vary by location. Nurse prescribers in my workplace are band 7, so would have no need to do PA training .

The use of PAs and AAs is turning into a health scandal. I'm sure it will end up being part of a two tier health service: NHS free treatment - you get a PA. Private patient who can pay - you see a medically qualifed doctor.

I always ask if I'm seeking a medically qualified doctor and I dread the thought of being taken into an operating theatre and having an AA while I'm unconscious.