Far Right wins Austrian election

[candlewhickgreen]

The far right won the most votes in an Austrian election for the first time since the Nazi era on Sunday, as the Freedom party (FPÖ) rode a tide of public anger over migration and the cost of living to beat the centre-right People’s party (ÖVP).

The pro-Kremlin, anti-Islam FPÖ won 28.8% of votes, beating the ruling ÖVP of the chancellor, Karl Nehammer, into second place on 26.3%, according to near-complete results

Frightening times, the FPO got into the European Parliament and want to bring in a remigration minister. They campaigned on remigration for this election and are pro Putin.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/sep/29/far-right-freedom-party-winning-austrian-election-first-results-show

@Alectoishome said;

all the bad feeling there was about the fact that they tended almost exclusively circulate their custom and money with the Jewish community and therefore their contribution to Germany, struggling to overcome a devastating recession, was not what the Germans expected of the citizens of that country.

That is anti-Semitic propaganda. I'm astounded to see somebody promoting this Nazi bullshit as "fact."

...but people don't want the alternative, look at the hatred towards Labour now? plus Lab got just 33% of those who voted, lowest ever for an elected govt.
Combined Reform and Tory vote share exceed what labour got.

Should Labour fail in their key objectives, within 5 years the UK will have a far right govt that is more extreme than anything in mainland Europe.

The right wing candidates in the Tories leadership election, all want out of the ECHR, all want net zero migration, slash foreign aid & support Brexit. at least the right wing in Europe don't support leaving the EU... unlike our lot.

The Freedom Party, RN or Brothers of Italy are no more right wing than Reform or the Tory party.... i just don't get why people cannot see this.

Some people hate Labour. Not all. If people really wanted such a hard-line, right wing, anti immigrant party, more would have voted Reform. They got 14% of the vote which is surprisingly high but 86% of people did not vote Reform.
I know several conservative voters who absolutely hate Reform and aren't anti immigration. It's not right to lump all conservative voters and Reform voters together as if they all have the same stance on immigration, ECHR etc.
The country is divided. I read a poll this week that said 40% of the UK feel that immigration is an issue they're concerned about. So that's a lot of people but for the majority of the population, immigration is not a major concern. Even within those 40% of people who are concerned, they will not all be hard-line, net zero immigration supporters.

Well, all of that applies to the so called far right parties in Europe, 28% voted for the FR in Austria, thats a lower % than the 2 far right parties we voted for.

My point is, that Reform and the Tory vote, combined, are well ahead of Labour.
The centre left parties of LD and Lab are going to have to work together next time round or they'll lose.

& in terms of far right aims (as most parties in europe have moderated this as they know its not popular) its only the UK that has left the EU...

Starmer has managed with WFA and expenses to completely wreck the good will period he had, quite some feat.

The problem in the UK is two fold. First there isn't a viable alternative because no party seeks to change neoliberalism. Labour largely abandoned their socialist roots in the 90s under Blair and no longer represent the working class.

Secondly, we don't have an independent press in the UK. All our media bar The Guardian, are owned by right wing billionaires with an agenda. In order to get elected, Blair had to get into bed with Murdoch. He was approved if he allowed Murdoch to continue his activities unfettered.

The only real challenge to status quo was the Labour party under Corbyn but he was decimated by the right wing press. Under his leadership, Labour became the largest left wing party in Europe. He offered the chance of real change which the billionaires didn't want so they saw him off.

The only comparable party to the far right in Europe is Reform, though you're right, they are dragging politics towards the hard right. However they're aren't in the same league as Austria's which was founded by ex SS soldiers and want a remigration minister in the European Parliament.

The far right in Europe are anti EU, anti net zero, anti non ethnic residents and want mass remigration programmes. All the far right parties in Europe are way more extreme than Reform. The AfD in Germany are Nazi sympathisers and judged to be extremists.

But you can't really lump Reform and the Conservatives together because people will vote for one or the other. Yes, they're both on the right but they're two separate parties and I actually see quite of lot of division between voters of the two parties.
If you're going to put the right wing (Conservative and Reform) vote together it came to 38%. You should also then put the Centre/left vote (Labour and Lib Dems) together which was 46%. If you add Greens to that it comes to 53%.
Unlike many other countries, we're a moderate country that has historically always fought against political extremes. We've done well at warding off fascism over the years, and also socialism.
I can't see the majority ever fully embracing right wing ideologies. There are too many people vehemently opposed to it. The majority of people are opposed to it, in fact. I remember seeing a poll that showed how many people supported the ideas behind the racist rioting (not the violence but the anti-immigration message). It was 34%. A very sizeable minority indeed but I can never see this number reaching a majority.

This was in response to @Trailstunning

I think we need to understand why people are voting in these right wing parties. Do the electorate really agree with their policies or is it a protest vote because the mainstream parties just aren't in tune with the electorate?
Has the quality of our politicians nose dived in the last few years? Do we see any 'statesmen'? Is it because the electorate just don't feel the mainstream parties reflect their views anymore and have maybe taken their voters for granted?

My personal opinion is that people believe immigration is more of a threat than it actually is because of the right wing media and social media commentators. If you actually look at all the figures and stats (as I have) you'll see that immigrants are no more likely to commit crimes than British people, immigrants are net contributors to the NHS and the economy. They contribute more than they take. Yet people believe the opposite to be true, because of stirring up by the right wing media. I truly believe people vote for right wing parties based on misinformation.

The Tories are anti EU. Reform is anti EU. But that horse has already run. So now it's Muslims. Or Scots . Or anything really.

On the GDP per capita , I wouldn't set much store by it. Ireland is meant to be awash with money. Well , my adult children have Masters degrees , are working hard but see no prospect of buying or even renting property right now.

I see David Gilmour says the problem with music is the rich have stolen all the money. You could apply that statement to the global economy. Things are going to get interesting when Israel destroys Iranian oil refineries. Iran might respond by blocking the Straits of Hormuz. Interesting in the Chinese sense

I agree, I think immigration has become a hot potato. We need skilled immigrants to plug the gaps in the labour market, if they apply for visas, pay tax and are a benefit to society, surely no one can complain. But unfortunately the illegal immigrants/economic migrants are the ones getting all the headlines in the MSM. The immigration debate has become poisoned. Want a reduction in numbers? You're racist/right wing. It seems we just can't talk about immigration sensibly now. We need to separate out legal and illegal migration and stop using terms like irregular migration.

I’d say it’s people feeling unheard and that frustration being registered as a vote

It’s mostly around border control

You are quite right.

Whilst thats true, just 59% of the electorate turned out to vote and that was after a disastrous period of Govt for the Tories, but Labour got 20% of the total electorate, so its easy to see why they appear so unpopular.

40% didn't vote, thats about 18m people!

I don't believe we are a tolerant nation at all and Lab have moved into ground the Tories used to occupy - anti benefits, anti immigration, anti EU and now arguing over cuts to foreign aid, they wouldn't be doing that if these policies had little support.... things like VAT on school fees and WFP are just bones thrown to what remains of the left in the party, with zero regard for who it will damage.

Our voting system never needs a majority, 34% voting reform could see them become the next Govt, Thatcher, Blair never got more than 44% of the vote, the rise of Reform and LD have altered these numbers.

People have always voted for the far right based on misinformation, the anti Labour message across all sections of the media is constant, will only increase & given that problems in the nhs, roads, infrastructure, dentistry etc need a lot of investment and skilled workers, who take a min of 3 years to train, its quite likely very little will have changed by the next GE, leaving the door open for the far right.

I hear what you're saying and agree with a lot of it. Support for the far right is a threat and increasing all over the world.
I don't think we're a particularly tolerant country but I think we're moderate in that we don't do extremes, unlike other European countries. For example, we'll never have a socialist government. While millions supported Jeremy Corbyn, there were too many vehemently opposed to him. It's exactly the same with Reform, millions support them but there are too many people opposed to them with every fibre of their being. They will never get 34% of the vote.
The vast majority of our media is right wing and relentlessly peddles anti-immigrant messages yet it's a credit to the British people that most still see through this. Polls show that the majority are not concerned by immigration despite years of negative campaigning by the media and social media commentators. The media will carry on doing what it does but there are too many people like me, and nearly everyone I know, who will never vote for a right wing party.
You talk as if support for the right wing will inevitably keep growing but too many people reject it, and reject what the media tells us. Yes I see support for Reform growing slightly but it will never take hold.
Latest polls show that most people would now vote to be in the EU. That obviously includes people who originally voted for Brexit. Starmer wants to move closer to Europe, not further away.

It's more competition for jobs. Especially the higher paying NHS and civil service jobs. How many working class children in UK would make excellent doctors and midddle-ranking/senior civil servants but will never get the chance because of the poor culture/education they receive? I have regular medical treatment and its years since I've seen a white brit doctor. So many children in this country just don't get chances.

Also, plenty of male immigrants have come from cultures that view women very differently to what is considered acceptable over here.

Interesting discussion @SallyWD

I think the only reason we don't do extremes is our FPTP voting system, if we had PR, we'd now have a coalition and with PR, far people might vote as they'd feel represented.

Reform would have more MPs than the LD's.

Yes i do believe the right will gain more support, whether thats Reform or the Tory party, i don't know but looking at the Tory party atm, they seem hell bent on moving further to the right.

Starmer, like many before him (since Brexit) will talk of closer ties to the EU but he wont achieve them, without agreeing to ECJ oversight, which he has ruled out, there can be no closer ties.

If he wants growth, then real change to our EU/UK trade will be required, he shows no sign of doing this & should he fail to deliver growth and improvements in public services, then he won't get a 2nd term.

Once again, I agree with many of your points but differ in some respects. I think if we had PR, yes more far right votes would be cast but also more votes to the left, votes for Greens etc. Everyone would feel their vote has more weight so we'd have a very interesting mix across the board.
I agree that the future success of Labour is very precarious, especially with the powerful right wing media determined to destroy them and the challenges they face. I agree that the right wing vote will increase. However, I don't see a majority falling for the far right agenda. We had a right wing government for years so there's certainly an appetite for it but I still don't see the far right taking hold here. Even the Conservative voters I know reject the far right, were appalled by the riots and dislike Reform. Obviously there are plenty of Tories who embrace the far right but many don't. There are way too many people here who are centre or left for the far right to ever take hold. However, I do see it as a growing threat.

I agree with you to an extent. I think the inequality in this country is appalling. I've travelled a lot and lived abroad three times. With the exception of India, I've never been anywhere where you are so defined by your class as the UK.
Inequality is the number one issue for me. I'm not concerned about immigration which I see as largely positive. What I want most is for more to be done to lift people out of poverty. I don't believe the riots would have happened if there weren't so many people living hopeless lives. None of this deprivation is caused by immigrants, yet they are conveniently blamed for all the failings of our society.
At the same time, plenty of working class kids can and do thrive. I know several doctors who all went to state schools. I have a friend who was raised by a single mum on benefits. He was one of the poorest kids I knew growing up. He's now a barrister earning in excess of £200k.
As for the male migrants viewing women in an unacceptable way. Well, I have mixed feelings about this. I'm certainly not saying it's not an issue but I do feel this is often something peddled by the right wing media leading to people making sweeping statements such as "Muslims are misogynistic. Muslims don't respect women" etc. Many people believe this as fact.
All I know is what I see around me. I live in quite a Muslim area - where Muslims are middle class. The female Muslims I know are not repressed. Quite the opposite- they are doctors, lawyers, a well known architect. They have daughters they are privately educating. They are raising them to be independent women with good careers. They don't want to marry them off young for a life of servitude.
The Head of my Department is a Muslim man who arrived from Bangladesh two years ago (so not westernised). He's the biggest champion of women in our team! Whatever we do he wants to ensure women are involved and represented.
I just think many people have blanket views of certain cultures and don't see that reality is far more nuanced than that.

especially with the powerful right wing media determined to destroy them and the challenges they face

That powerful media did the same to the last gov, capitalising on partygate for over a year for profit ending up taking out the PM.

Labour haven’t been in power for a while, the media and SM has grown in impact since

Plus I don’t see people can lament this power if they used it happily to get in

Yes, I agree that the Conservatives were heavily criticised by the right wing press, too. I think there's a key difference, though. The right wing press actually wants the conservatives in power and actively wants to get Lavour out of power.
In the run-up to the election, the Daily Mail (I believe it's the most popular newspaper) published several articles urging the public to vote Conservative and stating it would be a disaster if Labour got in. They'll do the same in the run up to the next election. They very much support Conservative ideology.

I don't think the problem is male immigrants viewing women differently although of course they do exist, the real problem is some men regardless of their ethnic background viewing women differently, it's right wing propaganda that puts this rubbish out there and people believe it rather than looking at how we bring up our own boys and hold them to account. I do agree with you though that our children are not given the education and chances they deserve but that's government lack of funding at fault rather than immigration

At our local grammar and especially the super selective one further away, it's 80%+ immigrants, European and Asian. Why is this? Because families from these backgrounds are putting all the stops out to ensure their children do well in life. Excellent education = improved opportunities. Segments of the UK suffer from a lack of aspiration and hard work.

I don’t think this bears out to what the press actually does

It was a powerful factor in removing a PM and removing them as a gov

They’ll not hold back for Labour but if people cheered on the former, which they did - you can see on here, then there’s not much they can say about it now.

It’s just the same forces gathering in the relationship between the media and SM

Right wing left wing blah blah blah

When will people realise that these tribal binary categorisations are really meaningless and only serve to make genuine effective political engagement and dialogue almost impossible.

Why can't we just debate the issues themselves, whatever they appear to be, ion their own merits or demerits, without having to identify with the right or the left, whatever those terms even mean anymore.