Why doesn't anyone have a proper plan for the NHS?

[letyouberight]

I say this as someone who works within the NHS as a registered professional. At work, it's total shit. We are so overwhelmed and stretched all the time, morale is in its boots, quality of service is naff and it's all just inefficient.

As a patient, I have recently been having an absolute nightmare trying to have a fairly minor procedure done which would actually relieve me of significant pain, reduce my time off work due to the issue and is literally a day-case procedure if that. I have seen 2 GPs who haven't listened so I have had to go back 3/4 times for the same problem. Then been told to see a specialist service whose waiting list is long.
I priced up going private and was told £2600, money I do not have.

I get it from the individual professionals' POV, as I also am medically trained and while I can see some aspects of care are individuals' faults, most of the problem is systemic.

Seriously, what are any of them proposing to do about it?! Reform, reform, reform- YES but HOW?!

Apologies if this is a bit ranty but I am honestly at breaking point with my work stress and health issues- both of which stem from the NHS.

You are wrong. The two tier system you mention, works pretty much everywhere else in the world. The NHS has always been partially "privatized", right from conception, and is no more private now than it ever was. You cannot have a system where everything and everyone is paid by the state. The system would collapse.

The NHS needs to be taken away from politics. Both con and lab claim to prioritise and value it, but really both value votes above anything and nothing gets sorted.

it also needs some sort of insurance system. It should be free for the poorest 10% (or some system along those lines) and the rest need insurance.

it’s so broken and dangerous that it’s killing people every day

This ⬆. So many resources are being put into keeping failing elderly people alive with a poor quality of health that there seems to be little left in the pot to treat younger people with simple curable health issues.

Yes because thats working so well for utilities, and transport, come to think of it 🤔

Many NHS services are already expensively privatised anyway, look closely and you’ll see ‘proudly providing the NHS service’ everywhere.

Yes, its being done by stealth. Look closely at cars and vans with the big blue NHS logo... small writing somewhere underneath that reads 'working in partnership with'.

I can't find the link, but I do recall reading that something like 75% of the NHS is already covered by private providers, and that was about 5 years ago.

I can't find the link, but I do recall reading that something like 75% of the NHS is already covered by private providers, and that was about 5 years ago

That would be 7.5% not 75% ............

We already have that. It's called tax and NI. My DH is in his 70s and has been paying income tax for almost 60 years and is still paying.

No-one should have to pay twice if they don't want to. Otherwise you would have to allow opt out from the NHS and then who would fund the vulnerable - of any age - who need it most.

The ageism on this thread is terrible. Just because someone is older it doesn't mean that they require more healthcare than someone younger who is ill or vulnerable. We will all need to use it at some point. I'm lucky enough to currently be in good health and have not needed to see a doctor or have any treatment for several years. I don't grudge paying my share though as it is funding those people who need it now. That's how it works. Otherwise where does it end? If you're saying you only get out what you have contributed then that is effectively the end of the NHS.

We should always aim to care for those who need it.

I'd say it's closer to 75% than 7.5%. When you consider most GP surgeries and pharmacies are private businesses, then you have all the logistics which are mostly private businesses, in-house services such as cleaning and catering which are mostly private, most drugs and equipment will be brought from businesses, and of course all the new hospitals bought via PFI.

And healthcare isn't free. It's this misconception that leads to abuse of the service. We all pay for it through tax and national insurance. It's only free at the point of need. The only people who don't pay or haven't paid are children and vulnerable people who are unable to work. And that's as it should be.

This is why it needs to be done properly. We need to have a proper system not this piecemeal stealth nonsense. NI pays for current pensions and healthcare. It's not an insurance system.

Was it a clinic for chronic conditions? I'm assuming it wasn't for people who are seriously disabled and will be despite the amount of resources thrown at them.

And who is going to insure these people, how much is it going to cost them. You're naive if you think the government will improve people's incomes so they can pay premiums.

Why don’t we stop paying so many middle men and start putting the money at grass roots level, where it is needed.

There is enough money, the problem is it going to all the wrong places and people at the top instead of into the actual hospitals!!!

Money is not the issue, it’s the way it’s being run that’s the issue.

@DramaLlamaBangBang

This is why it needs to be done properly. We need to have a proper system not this piecemeal stealth nonsense.

Exactly this. And that's why the NHS will eventually collapse and we will end up with a US system. It's because the politicians (especially Labour) won't tell the truth about what needs to change that the NHS will limp on for a bit longer until collapse. Whilst Labour perpetuate the myth that all the NHS needs is more money, we'll never get the changes needed.

At least Wes Streeting is starting to test the water by saying change is needed as well as money. Let's hope he can actually make a start towards the changes needed and that he's not silenced and forced to backtrack by unions and other vested interests in maintaining the status quo.

I think that healthcare will always be a bottomless pit and there is the problem of perverse incentives- if health care is free for everyone where is the incentive to take proper care of your own health?

I agree with this. A large amount of public money goes to the NHS, this attracts a feeding frenzy from the sharks (aka middlemen) they smell blood and they want some so they insert themselves wherever they can to siphon off the profits.

Not all illnesses and accidents are the result of 'not taking proper care' of your own health. Victim blaming at its finest.

Why can't we pay for the NHS on a means tested percentage basis, with rich people paying a higher percentage, down to some people paying nothing?

I'm not rich but I’m reasonably comfortable so I offered to pay for mine since I get all my prescriptions free because I’m prescribed thyroxine. I was told the paperwork involved made it not worth it.

Can you explain why this would be cheaper then funding the NHS properly by increasing taxation?

Any reform should involve a lot of lay offs. The NHS has so many well paid pointless admin roles that bring nothing to it.

I also think a similar system to the NHS Dental model should be applied in some way. Banded pricing.

Pray tell me whereabouts did I state that all accidents and illnesses are the result of not taking proper care of your own health?

I'm not victim blaming, you are failing to read properly😙

Ooh yes, let’s call it something like “income tax” perhaps?

I think it would be accurate to say that, if taking part in an anonymous poll, and asked if they would like to pay a fee to access treatment so that others could access it for free the majority would say a very firm no

And when it comes to changing/improving the NHS where would you start?
I would vote for it being a joint cross party decision- it’s not something that can be trusted to party politics

@Octavia64 well said.

it'll never be fixed because people are too stupid to realise it isn’t just about funding